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From:
Allen Shock
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Posted on:
7/27/2002 11:27 pm
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To:
ALL
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I really wish we could get a d20 conversion of Feng Shui. I feel with appropriate work, this could be a cinematic hit. I love FS (I oughtta, I bought a copy of Thorns for 75 bucks!) but my players have problems with the game system. If you did a d20 version, you could then do dual-stat sourcebooks and maybe sell more of them. Allen
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From:
John Nephew
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Posted on:
7/28/2002 1:12 am
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To:
Allen Shock
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Have you checked out Burning Shaolin (the Feng Shui/D20 dual stat book that we did) yet? Burning Shaolin has done fairly well, so there's a chance we'll do more Coriolis books for both D20 and FS in the future. We're not planning to do a full-blown D20 version of the game, however.
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From:
ve6neo
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Posted on:
7/29/2002 2:00 am
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To:
Allen Shock
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I'm on the other side of this paradigm. I like the way that the current mechanincs sit. It keeps the gaming sessions fresh, and clearly separates it from the other d20 oatmeal. Please don't make the upcoming rule books with d20, as I'll feel like I'm paying for part of a book I didn't want. Feel free to keep putting in conversions with adventures, as long as it doesn't affect the cost or content (not easy, I know). Neil.
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From:
DarrinBright
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Posted on:
7/30/2002 8:38 am
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To:
ve6neo
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A full-on d20 conversion for Feng Shui would be a Really Bad Idea (TM). Those of you yearning for such a thing will have to content themselves with Burning Shaolin, although its fairly obvious which system the original Feng Shui designer (Robin Laws) favors if you read the little barbs in the GM text. (Too busy looking cool, indeed...) The two systems are based on fundamentally different concepts. It just wouldn't work. D&D is a tactical miniatures wargame with roleplaying elements occaisonally bolted on. Feng Shui is a cinematic simulation of an action movie with some definite leanings towards free-form RPGs. If you tried to convert it into the humorless and soulless d20 mechanics, you'd rip out everything that makes it unique and interesting. If you're looking for D&D and fantasy martial arts, you might want to look at Chris Pramas' _DragonFist_, an entire RPG available for free on the WotC website. It predates 3rd Ed a little bit but you can see that Feng Shui inspired a lot of the mechanics.
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From:
Allen Shock
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Posted on:
7/30/2002 7:03 pm
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To:
DarrinBright
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If you had seen AEG's Spycraft, I think you would realize that this is not accurate. They have a lot of elements of Hong Kong style action in that game and modern firearms and such and it works just fine. D20 is NOT D&D. D&D is simply the most well-known form of D20. yes, the rules are somewhat more tactical..but not as much as you are implying. I contend that making a d20 supplement for Feng Shui that allows one to play in that universe in the d20 system would be a sound move financially for Atlas Games, and would please those of us who like the Feng Shui setting but not neccesarily the rules (although I myself don't mind the system, just find it counter-intuitive in places). Allen
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From:
Allen Shock
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Posted on:
7/30/2002 7:09 pm
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To:
John Nephew
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Yes, I have Burning Shaolin and I like it a lot. I will be upfront; I like Feng Shui, but I find the mechanics counter-intuitive at times; I especially have problems with the stunt rules. After seeing Spycraft and the feats therein, I really feel the d20 system would be a great boon to the Feng Shui setting. I am not suggesting you should scrap the original system. Something more like a book with classes and rules for d20, and some background but perhaps not as much as in the original book, and then dual-stat adventures and supplements. don't replace Feng Shui..just give people the option to play in the Shadowfist setting using the d20 system. Other companies are releasing dual-stat adventures and supplements, and doing d20 versions of their games, while still doing stuff for the original systems too. Allen
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From:
DarrinBright
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Posted on:
8/3/2002 1:54 am
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To:
Allen Shock
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I will have to take a closer look at Spycraft and see what they've done. I'm still rather skeptical, though. In my mind, the two systems just wouldn't mix well at all. Feng Shui hinges on an almost free-form approach where the players have to come up with imaginative descriptions of what they want to do. Whenever what you want to do comes into conflict with the rules, the rules elegantly get out of the way. D20 hinges on hammering everything down into 1-inch squares, measuring out movement, classifying everything into move-equivalent, standard, full-round actions, then assigning a myriad of +2/-2 modifiers based on a variety of obtuse special-case rules, then throwing a bunch of rigidly defined Feats at the players so they don't notice they are playing a miniatures wargame. The entire design philosophy runs counter to Feng Shui's. Besides, when I sit down at a table, I want my character to kick ass RIGHT NOW (or at least be competent), not wait until several levels later, buy that useless feat or dump points into skills I'm never going to use just to qualify for a prestige class... maybe D&D really has ruined D20 for me, but to me the core problems with it are levels and hit points, and guess what has remained as the defining cornerstones of every D20 game?
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From:
brienprime
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Posted on:
11/4/2002 11:18 pm
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To:
ve6neo
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>Please don't make the upcoming rule books with d20, as I'll feel >like I'm paying for part of a book I didn't want. Feel free to keep >putting in conversions with adventures, as long as it doesn't affect >the cost or content (not easy, I know). I second this, I'm tired of paying for (sometimes up to half of) a book full of d20 info that I can't use because it's for a system I don't play. Brienprime
Edited 11/5/2002 12:43:00 PM ET by BRIENPRIME
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From:
Hindmarch
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Posted on:
11/6/2002 12:22 pm
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To:
brienprime
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Hi there, Don't worry about d20 stats showing up in new Feng Shui books. That's what Coriolis is for, not what's happening with Feng Shui proper. I can't say for certain what to expect out of the future of Coriolis, but I can tell you that the future of Feng Shui is the rules system you have come to know and love. Only with more action. :-) Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games
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From:
Jedi GoodKnight
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Posted on:
11/6/2002 9:25 pm
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To:
Hindmarch
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Just out of interest, is Coriolis exclusively D&D related, or will we see Coriolis D20 Modern supplements?
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From:
John Nephew
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Posted on:
11/7/2002 3:52 pm
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To:
Jedi GoodKnight
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At the present, we don't have any plans for Coriolis/D20 Modern. I suppose we might try it at some point, but we haven't been watching the D20 Modern developments very closely. (We didn't apply to get advance access to the book, for example.)
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From:
Hindmarch
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Posted on:
11/7/2002 9:38 pm
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To:
John Nephew
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(I'm just getting my first look at d20 Modern this very minute, in fact.) word,
Will Hindmarch
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From:
Allen Shock
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Posted on:
1/26/2003 7:25 pm
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To:
Hindmarch
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One book, that's all. D20 character creation rules (probably d20 Modern at this point) for the Feng Shui archetypes (advanced classes to add onto the basic classes). Whatever changes to the combat rules might be needed to make the game more cinematic; take a page from Spycraft and Mutants and Masterminds and ditch the opportunity attacks. Rules for Lotus-style magic, arcanowear, etc. Templates for transformed animals, and monster stats for some of the major beasties. and a conversion system, so people can take the existing materials and port them over. No dual stat books, no d20 Feng Shui line...just one book for those who would want to use the system. It has to sell at least as good as Seal of the Wheel and who knows...maybe better. Allen
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From:
Hindmarch
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Posted on:
1/27/2003 5:09 pm
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To:
Allen Shock
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I think the jury is still out on the matter of D20 cross-over books, whether the book itself is dual-statted or not. On the one hand, FS players don't want to buy a d20 book they don't need. On the other hand, d20 players might not want a book with no future support or a title that they feel is designed purely for marketing. I'm thinking of Deadlands' success rate as a d20 entity, at least in part. Now, having said that, I'm considering some Feng Shui books for the future that sort of play with the relationship between d20 and Feng Shui a little bit. Nothing official has been set yet, but I'm thinking about Coriolis titles that are more than just adventures. What do you think? word,
Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games
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From:
Allen Shock
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Posted on:
1/27/2003 5:31 pm
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To:
Hindmarch
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I think this might be a cool idea. Say, a Coriolis adventure that deals with the Architects, with a sourcebook section that has enough info on them that one could use them in a game based on the Feng Shui setting. I guess I wasn't aware that Deadlands d20 wasn't doing well; most of the Deadlands players here switched immediatley. Of course there aren't very many of them, and maybe that's the problem- Deadlands, not the d20 part (although to be honest I like Deadlands as a setting quite a bit). As for D20 books without much support not selling...well, d20 Cthulhu seemed rather popular around here, despite the near-total lack of support thus far (one rework of an older adventure by FFG). Allen
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From:
Michael_Rea
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Posted on:
2/3/2003 2:32 am
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To:
Allen Shock
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I like your idea of adding a bit more meat to the Coriolous adventures. As an omniverous GM myself I like mixing and matching from diferent sources to keep the players on their toes.
I'm not surprised that d20 Deadlands isn't doing well. The Deadlands group that I played in (our Marshall managed to keep it going for five years)looked at it and felt that much of the atmosphere was miswsing with the new mechanincs. Of course this hasn't stopped me from beginning to rework it using some other material into a cowboys vs dinosaurs, Valley of Gwangi lost world campaign.
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