Ars Magica On Attracting New Players to the Game
From: Mutant for Hire Posted on: 9/6/2002 10:09 pm
To: ALL
Message: 82.1
I thought I'd open up a thread discussing ways that Ars Magica can be made more attractive to new players outside of the system. This differs from the 5th edition discussion as in most ways that thread has turned into what returning gamers want to see.

For that matter, what do people think are the primary barriers to people approaching the game? What makes people pick up the game at the store, leaf through it and put it down again?

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 9/7/2002 8:36 am
To: Mutant for Hire
Message: 82.2
in reply to: 82.1
If Atlas really wanted to attract new players, they could try to poach White Wolf-ers who like the Tremere.

"Play the Pre-History of the WoD".

However, Ars is always going to interest only a small number of people who are interested in playing in either a historic European setting, or who want a detailed and comprehensive magic system.

~Alex

From: Jeremiah Genest Posted on: 9/7/2002 9:00 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 82.3
in reply to: 82.2
[[If Atlas really wanted to attract new players, they could try to poach White Wolf-ers who like the Tremere.
"Play the Pre-History of the WoD". ]]

Ars Magica isn't the pre-history of the WoD. Totally different assumptions.

Plus ny chance for that sort of poaching is long gone. Dark Ages took care of that.

Jere

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 9/7/2002 11:52 pm
To: Jeremiah Genest
Message: 82.4
in reply to: 82.3
In what way isn't Ars the prehistory of the WoD? It came up with many of the assumptions and ideas that were later expanded on in Vampire and Mage, in addition to having two groups common to major WoD events- the Order and the Tremere.

WW is cleverly making its own versions of said groups now though, with DA:Vamp and DA:Mage.

~Alex

From: Trippy666 Posted on: 9/8/2002 9:15 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 82.5
in reply to: 82.4
Ars Magica isn't a pre-history of the WoD because it assumes a fixed paradigm, rather than a maleable one.

If ArsM wanted to attract new players, then I'd argue these things should be considered:-

- Keep IC fiction short and sweet, for flavour text, rather than using it to introduce core concepts. No more than 1-2 pages at most, per piece.

- Following on from the above, ensure that all key concepts are presented clearly and concisely in the first few pages of the book. Define all terms early on.

- Make use of 'splat' graphical spreads for the various Houses in character generation.

- Increase general graphical content of book. Maps, Templates, Illustrations.

- Re-assess overall design of book as it relates to it's core market audience and what type of product they would be prepared to pay for. (Hint: Look at Nobilis - It doesn't look like a typical d20 product does it! What impression of the game do you get from such bold design choices made? What impression do you want Ars Magica to make?)

- Ensure clear and easy guidlines are given for rules conventions. ie *What* are the Ease factors for a given task, *when* do you add more botch dice, etc

- Ensure all systems are fluid and polished.

- Utilise more examples of Character and Covenant generation. Include a sample adventure/Chronicle (ie like Nigrasaxa) in corebook.

- Set a long term production schedule, and display it wherever possible.


Edited 9/8/2002 9:21:23 PM ET by TRIPPY666
From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 9/9/2002 4:59 am
To: Trippy666
Message: 82.6
in reply to: 82.5
>>Ars Magica isn't a pre-history of the WoD because it assumes a fixed paradigm, rather than a maleable one.<<

Just to be picky (and all your points were good ones), the WoD isn't very malleable. Vampire presumes the existance and supremacy of a single Judeo-Christian God, as well as a "Mythic Age" and the truth of magic as people believed it (filtered through WW stuff).

~Alex

From: Trippy666 Posted on: 9/9/2002 9:03 am
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 82.7
in reply to: 82.6
The Vampire game itself doesn't presume the existance of a Judeo-Christian God, nor in it's supremecy. The Vampire society and history have Judeo-Christian _references_, but there is still an element of mystery as there is in our own world.

This element of doubt is taken forward in both Werewolf (which have their own mythos and cosmology)and Mage wherein it is a core element of the game that reality isn't fixed. More recent additions to the WoD (Hunter and Demon) appear to be more pronounced in their Christian influence, but if we were to trace the timeline of the WoD back to the age of Exalted, we would see a history that is substantially removed from that preached in real life Christianity.

Ars Magica, on the other hand takes great pains to present a world which fits an Aristotlian-Medieval worldview. Ars Magica is a Medieval 'Hard Sci-fi' game (for want of a better expression); The Dark Ages/WoD is dark fantasy based on real world history.

More-to-the-point, I think that in game terms Ars Magica needs to strike some clear blue water between itself and the WoD: not only because it's theme and moods are different, but also simply because it needs to have an independent identity as a product.

From: Winged_Lion Posted on: 9/12/2002 4:32 am
To: Mutant for Hire
Message: 82.8
in reply to: 82.1
Like I said in the other discussion, to attract players you just need to put more fantasy into it. Believe it or not, people didnt play AD&D just to play magickal characters, but to play in a world of elves, dwarves, trolls, dragons, etc. They played it for the "high adventure" of tackling keeps and dungeons and disposing of Gel Cubes, goblins, trolls, etc. The problem with AM is that it tries to hard to be "real". Do you honestly want to be out-of-game for 6 months to learn a couple of spells and raise your spell casting or wouldnt it be funner to learn these things whilst casting the spells at armies of kobolds and their controlling beholder? It might make less sense to learn from experience and mishappened spells, but its more fun and attracts more players.

A bit off subject, but helps demonstrate my point, a friend of mine ran a AD&D game once and when someone casted spells he always made you roll a dice for a fumble. One guy rolled a fumble on a Magic Missile spell and following these homemade charts the GM had ended up rolling that the spell was 2 tiers more powerful and became area effect (see Fireball), it was the perfect way to 'realize' your mistake and learn how to copy it in a manner that the party you're with werent the target. I say that to encourage more players, turn your campaign into a fantasy campaign, the magic system is far too incredibly genius to waste it on a "real world" environment.

Sphynx