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From:
Master_Kiero
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Posted on:
4/20/2003 2:23 pm
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To:
ALL
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Don't get me wrong, I love 69, 1850 and contemporary (plus Pulp! of course). But I've just never really "got" the 2056 juncture. Maybe it's just cos I don't like Arcanowave stuff. Even though Abominations are kind of cool. Don't like the Architects. Same goes for the Jammers, just never found a use for them in my games. That juncture just seems like an afterthought compared to the others. Or maybe its just because its so much more difficult to come up with any vision of the future? Am I just wierd? Anyone else used alternative junctures for the future that worked better? My other problem is one of "what's the point". Because there isn't a juncture after 2056, any changes there won't actually make any difference to any of the others. And it suffers the worst "domino effect" of any critical shift. In my mind that makes 69 the most stable, and most important juncture - critical shifts affect all the other junctures, and your sites can't be stolen out from under you in the past. Kiero
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From:
Hindmarch
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Posted on:
4/21/2003 6:30 pm
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To:
Master_Kiero
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Hi there, In response to this post, I'll be sure to get our terrific new cover for "Gorilla Warfare," the Jammer sourcebook, onto the website tomorrow. (I'm cut off from the site right now due to maintenance.) I know where you're coming from, believe me. I don't think "Seed of the New Flesh" gave us the tangible sense of the future that I was hoping for. Fortunately, John Seavey's explored a fair bit of the future in "Gorilla Warfare." I'll be honest, it might not change your mind about the juncture, but it should give you a clearer picture to base your decision on. word,
Will Hindmarch
Feng Shui Line Developer
Atlas Games
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From:
Master_Kiero
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Posted on:
4/21/2003 7:58 pm
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To:
Hindmarch
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Many thanks, that wasn't meant to be as harsh as it came out. I'd just like to see something that perhaps brings other elements out of 2056. I find it difficult to get past my visceral "ewww" reaction when it comes to Arcanowave and mutation. The whole totalitarian global state and armies of Abominations I can deal, really it's just the icky Arcanowave stuff. I guess being a future it is harder to get to grips with. New stuff sounds good, and the title is an especially fitting pun. Kiero
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From:
Sensei
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Posted on:
4/21/2003 11:53 pm
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To:
Master_Kiero
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To be honest, the Arcanowave stuff plays better as creepy NPC gimmicks to spook the players, I feel. None of my players are into using it because of the mutations...even if the chance is tiny, no one in my group really wants to risk their character becoming a mutant. (I know some people think mutations are cool, cuz they give your PC special powers, but that's not really in keeping with heroic role playing. Damn few movie heroes get excited when they sprout scales.) And since I can't imagine anyone sane, even NPCs from 2056, actually wanting to use the stuff regularly, I have a hard time envisioning loads and loads of Buro mooks using arcanotech either. In my campaign, arcano stuff is usually saved for Abominations, or occasional weird machinery used in background descriptions. Very few non-abominations tote the stuff around.
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From:
Bob the Dancing Monkey
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Posted on:
4/22/2003 11:00 am
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To:
Sensei
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Just as a different point here, I've mostly enjoyed the source material that we've had on 2056. While _Seeds_ had its stylistic problems, it gave me more than enough ideas to get a superb 2056 film going, including visits to the Texas Free Zone (and the anti-Feng Shui site of the Austin Spire), Critical Shift teases, the Bureau for Happiness and Productivity, and the most fucked-up _Running Man_ game show ever..."Bouncer". Was a hell of a campaign, and one of my favorites thus far. Coming up with Bouncer really did help round out my understanding of the sadistic nature of most of BuroMil and the BHP - it started with the idea of using zogevators for executions and moved from there to a game field forty stories above the BHP underground installation. Prisoners who are to be executed begin at the fortieth story of a 2x2 zogevator grid with a significant scaffolding system around the borders of its field of use. Four players (loyal Consumers who volunteer) get to manipulate one zogevator each - trying to knock the prisoners off the scaffolding system. The scaffolding maze, of course, has a number of hidden grappling hooks and guns and the like. Any prisoner who can survive all the way to the ground gets a stay on his execution. But that's just one little bit. I've been playing since 1997, and my view of 2056 has always been a really, really dark world where everything has gone terribly wrong in just about every way. The little bits of wackiness in _Seeds of the New Flesh_ are just for spice when I send my players to 2056.
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From:
Master_Kiero
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Posted on:
4/22/2003 12:07 pm
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To:
Sensei
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I think I'd agree there, good for GMCs, but not very good for PCs. See I couldn't see anyone wanting to make widespread use of Arcanowave stuff either. Risk of mutation is just too nasty. Even if it wasn't modelled in the rules, it's just too sick to contemplate for a hero. I'd imagine mooks and other non-Abominations just make good use of the superior hard-tech from 2056 rather than the Arcano-stuff. Plus I don't really rate the 2056 archetypes compared to their non-Arcanowave counterparts (mostly cos I don't think the Arcanowave stuff is very good). Supernatural creatures are more powerful than Abominations, simply because Creature schticks are better. Cyborgs and Monster Hunters are a poor cousin to ex-Special Forces or Killers. Obviously it's not all about power, but you get more for your money with the non-2056 archetypes. Kiero
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From:
Queex
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Posted on:
4/28/2003 5:53 am
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To:
Master_Kiero
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I quite like the Monster Hunter. I think the less effective 'combat' archetypes make for a better mix with non-combat archetypes. It can be a bad experience for the party journalist to realise they have no realistic chance of shining in the fight scenes.
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From:
Sensei
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Posted on:
4/29/2003 4:57 pm
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To:
Queex
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My brother plays a Monster Hunter with a well-done background and melodramatic hook. He really likes the Hunter... but even he won't touch arcanotech. He just liked the archetype cuz it fit his idea of a cool character. When anyone asks about the bizarre 'tech ports in his arms, he just says chicks dig scars...
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From:
eXceL111
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Posted on:
5/22/2003 4:18 pm
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To:
Sensei
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I agree that the arcanowave tech is icky and often not that great, but there are some good pieces of tech in the lot, plus the equipment options are really good (guns and 0g tech in particular).
Arcanowave mutation ARE nasty, however there are ways around it. For instance, as far as I understand, a sorcerer with the summoning schtick can rid someone of his arcanowave mutation. Obviously, it is better if there is no sorcerer PC around to do it regularly. Bargaining with Lotus sorcerers for mutation removal is a GREAT plot hook. A Fu path can do that also but is so specialised that only a VERY rare old master from 2056 will know it. Of course, you bet he will be paranoid and send the player on a quest to prove themselves against Bonengel troops.
As for the archetypes, I really like the monster hunter. It has some of the best characteristics available. He can easily develop some Fu schticks (they are so cheap) and gun schticks are already part of his archetype. Hell, in time he may even be able to develop creature schticks (although it has drawbacks such as horrific appearence and the impossibility to have your mutation erased by magic). This makes him the most versatile archetype in my opinion. My 2 favourite starting arcanowave schticks are the one which gives 2056 arcanowave modifier and, the huge rifle or the one which allows to replace the gun skill by the arcanowave skill and get cover bonuses (from Golden comeback). As NPC, they also make superb monster hunter platoon leaders. In the end, I do not like arcanowave, too icky, but it can be made to work and a few players like it. As a GM though, I love them!
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From:
Master_Kiero
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Posted on:
5/22/2003 7:47 pm
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To:
eXceL111
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I'd actually be tempted to start a Monster Hunter without any Arcanotech, possibly bartering them for another couple of Gun Schticks, and dropping the Arcanowave device skill for another few points of Guns or Martial Arts. For me it's not even a game benefits issue, I wouldn't want any character of mine touching the stuff. But that's just me. Kiero
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From:
eXceL111
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Posted on:
5/23/2003 7:15 am
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To:
Master_Kiero
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I have done something like that as an NPC. A reformed Monster hunter who defected after realising he was being changed into an abomination (was affected by a sorcerer Summoning schtick, R&D started poking him too much for comfort...). He gave up his arcanowave schticks, but got his pick of 2056 technology (e.g. a gun, a rifle, an narmor, a grav lamp and skating shoes or whatever the last 2 are called in Seed of the new flesh) and one extra gun schtick (he is experienced after all). He also starts with some mutation points, as required from his background. Since the campaign was centered on the modern juncture, the 2056 tech gave him quite an edge. His main goal was to become human again and settle somewhere nice. In exchange, he could negotiate some knowledge of 2056 and/or his skills as a mercenary. I thought to make an archetype out of it, but it was not distinct enough from the monster hunter.
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From:
Bob the Dancing Monkey
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Posted on:
6/11/2003 1:13 pm
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To:
eXceL111
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Don't forget that the Hardware Schticks are coming soon with the Jammers sourcebook. Monster Hunters who are too scared to get the arcanotech will be pleased.
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From:
kazibar
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Posted on:
6/20/2003 5:48 am
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To:
Bob the Dancing Monkey
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Been in campaign for 5 years or so and we also don't go for the official 2056 future. Some bits are good but it just doesn'et feel beleiveable to me. At the moment (post recent critical shift) our future looks very like Shadowrun. World is currently being heavily manipulated by Draco to get a future where dragons come out on top and survive the magic returning...
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