Feng Shui The Horton Utilities - valid or munchkin
From: Master_Kiero Posted on: 5/11/2003 7:41 pm
To: ALL
Message: 209.1
I'm hopefully starting a game of Feng Shui in the summer. Yay! It's an 1850 set game which may not have the Secret War in it.

That's all beside the point. I want to play a Martial Artist. But I have every intention of buying the Horton Utilities (TM) for my Fu schticks.

(As in Prodigious Leap, Friend of Darkness and Willow Step)

But it make me feel a little guilty. Does that choice, even though I actually like all the powers, make me a closet munchkin?

Prodigious Leap is a given, I'd never be without it. I like the fact that with Friend of Darkness I can see in the dark (useful for those night-time prowlings a la Iron Monkey and Crouching Tiger). Willow Step reminds me of that line from Dune "I shall bend like a reed in the wind". But the only reason I have that is because it is the best first rank defensive Fu.

So is that the only guilty power here, or am I worrying about it too much? Has GMing tainted my style of play?

Kiero

From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Posted on: 5/12/2003 8:51 am
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.2
in reply to: 209.1
Oh, go for it. They're fun to use. My players haven't keyed to the Big Three, and they play just fine without them. But those who know about them...why not? You just need to give an explanation of why you would know schticks from three completely different paths.
From: Sensei Posted on: 5/16/2003 6:57 pm
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.3
in reply to: 209.1
I don't see any reason why you would need to feel guilty about taking them. After all (to use an 1850 analogy), every gunfighter in the west worth his chaps has a six-shooter, so if you roll up a gunfighter, would you feel guilty about giving him the best shootin' iron you could find? Heck, no. So when creating a 'Shui character, give 'em what you want to make him equal or better than what he's gonna face, right?

On a completely personal note, I tend to rebel in my own humble way against the painfully obvious. I've never yet created a character with the "Horton Utilities" simply because, damn, that's too easy at this point. If everyone and their grandma knows about and uses the Utilities, then I'm not really doing anything clever by using them again.

I suppose this comes from being a game master rather than a player. I have nothing against someone using these schticks, but I'd rather make my PC different, even at the risk of having something goofy replace the HU's. Perhaps I'm twisted, but I'd much rather play a Martial Artist with, say, Hands W/o Shadow, Signature Weapon (iron prayer bead necklace, used as chain), and Natural Order. Granted, I'm not as flashy as someone leaping around with Horton's, but a year from now, who's everyone gonna recall fondly around the gaming table... the prayer-bead wielding monk who could dodge bullets, or yet another guy with Horton's?

Plus, I've always been annoyed with all that leaping about. Those Leap schticks just seem goofy to me. [Don't hate me.]

From: CCAMFIELD Posted on: 5/17/2003 12:46 am
To: Sensei
Message: 209.4
in reply to: 209.3
I used a sort of version of "Horton's Utilities" for my Masked Avenger character and although Prodigious Leap was a lot of fun, I might have been better off leaving him using the Avenger's bonus to heroic athletic feats, to fit the archetype better.

(I took Fox's Retreat, Prodigious Leap, and Clothed in Life.)

From: DarrinBright Posted on: 5/20/2003 2:38 pm
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.5
in reply to: 209.1
If you're playing Feng Shui and feeling guilty for "playing munchkin", then maybe you're in the wrong game... you're playing a HK action hero, you're supposed to be bad-ass!

That being said, what's wrong with the Horton Utilities? They're pretty much standard in all action movies now, aren't they? Well, Willow Step is at least. Prodigious Leap is only useful if you religiously keep track of movement (which I usually don't) so its never been a problem. As for Friend of Darkness... attack the players in broad daylight or make sure your bad guys can see in the dark, too.

It's Feng Shui... you're supposed to be pulling off death-defying stunts... and you feel guilty about this?

From: Master_Kiero Posted on: 5/21/2003 9:27 am
To: DarrinBright
Message: 209.6
in reply to: 209.5
Guess so.

Actually Prodigious Leap is useful when jumping and falling. Whether anyone's keeping track of movement or not, it saves you having to find a way up a storey or two if you can just jump. And short falls are no longer a worry. More to the point, it's a cool ability to have. Very Jedi, too...

Kiero

From: eXceL111 Posted on: 5/22/2003 5:14 pm
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.7
in reply to: 209.1
As I remember, the Norton utilities were introduced for a gun totting
Special forces type. They are really useful for him because they are
cheap and allow him to maintain distance while shooting, dodge better
shooters (i.e. killers) and shoot in the dark.

For a Martial artist, the advantages are less obvious to me because he
has enough Fu to take advantage of the more powerful schticks higher
along the Fu paths. Powerwise, I would much prefer a high reflexes
crane or a high body Tiger practitionner, and stylewise I find them
much more distinctive.

I would also require a background reason for such a diverse Martial
Arts style, but those can always be imagined with enough ingenuity.

From: Master_Kiero Posted on: 5/25/2003 11:17 am
To: eXceL111
Message: 209.8
in reply to: 209.7
True they have more Fu, but I actually think most of the first rank powers are far more useful (and cheaper) than the higher ones. I mean if you look at the Horton Utilities:

Prodigious Leap (a must for every Fu user with more than 2 schticks), two storeys or so of height are no longer a consideration - you can just jump them. Same goes for falling. You can also move faster than an Olympic sprinter by using it multiple times. And being able to jump is cool - very wuxia and Jedi.

Friend of Darkness means you can see in the dark. Who needs night-vision equipment? Again this is very cool, and a must for the night-thief who doesn't want to carry light sources around. Since they can give you away.

Willow Step. Always reminds me of "I shall bend like a reed in the wind" from Dune. As much a state of mind as a power. And of course the way Agents and Neo in the Matrix dodge is Willow Step.

And other first rank Fu powers:

Hands without Shadow. Movie classic, Wong Fei Hung's "No Shadow Kick". Need I say more?

Natural Order. Expensive but intimidating, especially against mooks. One shoots you, you shrug. Sure the others might think to open up, but played right they may believe you are immune to bullets. Perception is everything.

Gathering of Clouds. Juggle knives whilst reciting sonnets and riding a unicycle. Or balance a sword on the tip of your nose, while standing on one foot and writing calligraphy with the other foot.

Fist of Flame. Not especially powerful, but looks cool. And intimidating too.

Eyes of the Snake. "Look into my eyes!" Become the mesmerist you always wanted to be.

I'd rather have a disparate collection of first rank powers, usable in a wide range of situation, than a narrow set of highly-specialised, and Fu-expensive higher level ones.

As to a Martial Artist having a range of powers, aside from there being no "rule" against it, I believe there are as many literary examples of breadth over focus. The most famous of which being Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do (and the Orange Principle from Blood of the Valiant), which is deliberately a blend of the "best" from different styles. Regardless of what you think of JKD, picking and choosing from a range of styles is as valid as focusing one one style. Thus an eclectic mix is just as appropriate for a Martial Artist as three from the same Path.

Kiero

From: GrifterX2 Posted on: 5/31/2003 3:21 pm
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.9
in reply to: 209.8
I would think that it is just the opposite. Jeet Kune Do is the exception, rather than the rule. Most movie martial artist will have practiced in one specific art or style their entire lives, working to become true masters. The hokey dialogue from many a chop socky movie comes to mind, "Your Tiger style is strong, but my Dragon style will defeat it!". There are exceptions (Wong Fei Hong comes to mind) but those tend to be masters of all martial arts, but I think the movie characters Feng Shui is modeled on pick one path and stick to it. Your average PC should do the same.

Grifter

From: Master_Kiero Posted on: 5/31/2003 4:00 pm
To: GrifterX2
Message: 209.10
in reply to: 209.9
Actually as martial arts go, Jeet Kune Do was simply (maybe) the first to openly admit that it took influences and techniques from other styles. Most evolving martial arts adapt and change as time goes on, not least when they come in contact with other styles. Where is the sense in teaching something you've found doesn't work against something else?

The traditional "old school" method of teaching was jealous of other styles, and studying with other schools was a gross form of treachery. But that didn't mean masters didn't take things they saw from them to improve the quality of what they were teaching.

If that kind of cross fertilisation hadn't been going on from the beginning of martial arts, we'd still be using the basic grappling techniques documented in the Yellow River Kingdom in 4000BC.

Agreed older movies often used that kind of "my style is this" and practiced against another. But more modern films were a lot broader, not least because of the popularity of Bruce Lee.

And at the end of the day, as far as the mundane parts of the arts, there are only a finite number of permutations of what the human body will do.

Kiero

From: shion_ca Posted on: 8/13/2003 1:59 pm
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.11
in reply to: 209.10
Actually many styles admit references to previous styles. Take Choi Li Fut. It comes from the choi and Li styles of Kung Fu and has a temple foundation as well (the origin of Fut). Additionally There are several versions of Mantis, one of which uses monkey style footwork. Ba Ji uses Ba Gua as part of it's foundation. Wing Chun takes elements of several southern styles such as Bai He (white crane) some dragon influences as well and it's quite similar to Bok Mei (which has more dragon influence to my mind).
From: urbwar Posted on: 8/25/2003 12:08 am
To: Master_Kiero
Message: 209.12
in reply to: 209.10
Kiero,

I don't think you should worry about diversifying your fu powers. What matters is if you think it's cool. Cool is the epitome of the Feng Shui hero, not rationale for what schticks they have.

In my new game, the player of our Taoist swordsman also was concerned about explaining why he would have some of the schticks he had, and we discussed it. He stuck with most of the schticks he had, but ended up switching some for a path I found on the Genocide Lounge (Path of Tempered Steel), which he took the first two schticks in. Works out pretty well.

Granted I prefer to have my GMC's be more linear, but if a pc can give a cool explanation for the power, I see no reason not to allow it.

Besides, in the movies, Shaolin teaches a wide variety of styles, so learning such diverse tecniques can be as simple as stating you learned them from different masters you studied under while at Shaolin. Unlike those who chose to specialize in certain paths, your character chose to diversify his initial training. Simple, effective, and cool. That's all ya need imho :-)