Ars Magica Pre-Crusader Antioch
From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/19/2003 2:31 am
To: ALL
Message: 215.1
This is a fairly weird request, but I'm looking for a source, primary of secondary, for the history, culture and/or politics of pre-Crusade Antioch, or more generally, Syria.

My current saga is about to move to the Middle East, and is set in 1070, so Blood and Sand just doesn't cut it. In particular, I'm looking for the Byzantine and Turkish influences or impacts on Antioch.

Can anyone help?

~Alex
pax

From: niallchristi Posted on: 5/19/2003 1:56 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 215.2
in reply to: 215.1
Howdy,

As long as you bear in mind his pro-Byzantine leanings, a good starting point would be Sir Stephen Runciman's book, A History of the Crusades, volume 1 (fairly widely available - my edition is New York: Harper Torchbooks, 1964). The first 80 pages give a discussion of the situation in the Levant from the seventh to eleventh centuries.

I hope this helps,

Niall

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/19/2003 6:17 pm
To: niallchristi
Message: 215.3
in reply to: 215.2
Cheers. Do you know of any Islamic sources?

~Alex
pax

From: niallchristi Posted on: 5/19/2003 8:36 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 215.4
in reply to: 215.3
Of the small number of sources from that period that have been translated (I assume you don't read Arabic?), I can't think immediately of any Muslim sources who specifically pay large amounts of attention to Antioch. However, it would be worth checking out the Encyclopedia of Islam (New ed., Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1960-2002), vol. 1, which *if I remember correctly* has an article on "Antakiya." That will at least give you an article written from the point of view of an Islamicist.

I hope this helps,

Niall

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/21/2003 3:47 am
To: niallchristi
Message: 215.5
in reply to: 215.4
Thanks-- I keep forgetting about the Islamic Encyclopedia.

~Alex
pax

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/21/2003 3:57 am
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 215.6
in reply to: 215.5
Which reminds me. I suppose what I'm really looking for is some folk-lore and city legends for Antioch. Where the pagan temples were. Where the christians were martyred. Where the lepers lived. Where the Bishop of Antioch first gave the name Christians to that small sect of Jews in the first century CE. That kind of thing.

~Alex
pax

From: Berengar Posted on: 5/21/2003 4:55 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 215.7
in reply to: 215.6
G. Downey wrote a 'History of Antioch in Syria', Princeton 1961. It also has an extensive bibliography.

Excavations of old Antiochia were published in Princeton 1932 - 1952 in 4 volumes by the committee for the excavation of Antioch.

Both together should give you all you need, but you will likely find these books only in a university library.

Yours,

Berengar

From: dms_aus Posted on: 5/21/2003 11:38 pm
To: Al3xWhite
Message: 215.8
in reply to: 215.6
I run a campaign set during the first crusade. It started in 1094 in England. I have a fair amount of info on the Levant plus I have back dated Nialls book and added some extra period colour. I even have set out every mage in the Transylvanian/Thebes/Levant in 1102 (where my campaign is now) with lineages of the Tremere detailed, etc.

Runciman's books are great for period info. As you have set it in 1070 you have the battle of Manzikert and it is basically Byzantines vs Turks with Fatamid(Egypt) influences. Aleppo and Damascus are the major local influences with the Armenians based in Edessa and near Tarsus. Runciman has lots of info regarding the various groups, their relationships and feuds pre and post crusaders.

There are heaps of maps on the region. The Sabians of Harran the ancient temples of Sin and info pre christian Syria is available on the net - just search for it. Specific legend lore on Antioch on Syria I haven't much info on (I've been maning to publish it)- but would be interested in.

Jere's site is great for information on Byzantium (just search for Theban Tribunal). I'll do a list of books I have and we may be able to trade work product.

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/22/2003 4:42 am
To: dms_aus
Message: 215.9
in reply to: 215.8
That'd be neat. I'd love to see any notes you have, or the web address if you have it on the net.

~Alex
aw@vurt.net