Ars Magica Muto spells in parma
From: Freakwave Posted on: 5/28/2003 3:17 pm
To: ALL
Message: 225.1
This has cauzed some serious conversation in our group. If a magus casts crystal dart(Muto, requisite rego, main book) and targets it at a fellow magus, I suppose the target gains defence from parma magica, because he is using a magical medium, right?

What if the guy uses The liquid earth(Wizard's grimoire, Muto, Requisite aquam) beneath the other maguses foot? does the parma protect against this? I see why this effect would be no less magical than the crystal dart, and magus would not sink, but instead treat the liquid as it were the solid earth it truly is.

From: Al3xWhite Posted on: 5/28/2003 6:35 pm
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.2
in reply to: 225.1

I'd say yes and yes to Parma Resistance rolls.

~Alex
pax

From: spuwdsda2 Posted on: 5/29/2003 2:47 am
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.3
in reply to: 225.1

Imo the magus sinks.

Parma acts to prevent spells being cast on the magus, coming uder the influence of existing spells and magical objects injuring him. It does not cancel or suppress external magic.

Magic has turned earth into liquid. Liquid cannot support the weight of the magus, thus he sinks. Similarly a magus does not fall through a bridge conjured out of thin air.

The magus might well end up drowning in the liquid, but neither the spell itself or the magically altered material is injuring the magus directly.

Regards

- David W

From: marklawford Posted on: 5/29/2003 4:57 am
To: spuwdsda2
Message: 225.4
in reply to: 225.3
I agree. This is related to a problem we had a few weeks back. Does the magic resistence of an entity cancel or suppress muto effects cast onto items he/she/it touches?

The answer we arrived at was no. The magic is entirely contained within the affected item so there is nothing for the entity to resist.

I would encourage you not to be constrained by this though. It was mentioned in our discussions that there is more than one way to resist magic. If the entity's MR is based on destroying or disrupting magic then its presence may dispell the muto effect. Design the entity's MR according to the point you want to make about it I guess.

Mark

From: Freakwave Posted on: 5/29/2003 9:26 am
To: marklawford
Message: 225.5
in reply to: 225.4
By the same ruling, if a magus changed air into a toxinous gas, Parma magica would not help some one in the gas? Magus sinks to water, so wouldn't he take damage from the gas too, it is a same level of interaction?

If you say the gas would be stopped by parma, could the magus drown in the water then?

It has started to seem to me that parma is a very very bad skill and muto and terram are the ultimate combat tehcnique and form.

From: Freakwave Posted on: 5/29/2003 3:29 pm
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.6
in reply to: 225.5
In my last message, I meant, would parma protect against drowning.
From: marklawford Posted on: 5/29/2003 5:14 pm
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.7
in reply to: 225.6
Well, here's the rub. Parma wouldn't protect against poisonous gas or drowning, but the magus' understanding of the forms of Auram and Aquam would. Such would be his affinity with these elements that he simply knows how to subtly manipulate them to reduce their threat.

I forget which page of the rule book mentions this, and now Acrobat reader has fallen over looking for yet more updates so I can't check my pdf copy... It is in there.

From: Berengar Posted on: 5/29/2003 5:39 pm
To: marklawford
Message: 225.8
in reply to: 225.7
The Muto and Parma issue was thoroughly discussed again in the GO forum last year. You can find it under:

http://www.gamingoutpost.com/forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=ShowThread&threadID=68029&messageID=68029&forumID=2&CustomSS=1&login=

I think all the usual arguments of the last years have been worked through there.

Yours,

Berengar

From: Freakwave Posted on: 5/29/2003 6:21 pm
To: Berengar
Message: 225.9
in reply to: 225.8
Actually, I have already read that conversation, but it left the question a bit open.
From: Berengar Posted on: 5/30/2003 2:33 am
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.10
in reply to: 225.9
A bit open? Definitely! The rules are unclear and contradicting there, so everybody is on his own.

But the thread nicely at least lists the rules applicable and their location, spread over several books. And it goes through the different possible interpretations and their consequences.

Yours,

Berengar

From: spuwdsda2 Posted on: 5/30/2003 2:51 am
To: Freakwave
Message: 225.11
in reply to: 225.5

>>> if a magus changed air into a toxinous gas, Parma magica would not help some one in the gas? <<<

The effect couldn't cross the parma (assuming it is resisted). Thus as the magus draws air into his lungs, the Muto effect ceases to operate on the air and it reverts to normal. Therefore the magus is not harmed. The same principle applies to poisons drunk or eaten.

>>>Magus sinks to water, so wouldn't he take damage from the gas too, it is a same level of interaction? <<<

No. This is a completely different situation. The water is not damaging the magus, the magus is merely suffering for the mundane consequence of not being able to breathe. This is an incidental effect.

If a magical wall blocked access to a well and the magus was dying of thirst, Parma would not *protect* him either.

Regards

- David W