Feng Shui Iron & Silk
From: Hindmarch Posted on: 10/16/2003 6:26 pm
To: ALL
Message: 299.1
Hi everyone,

Iron & Silk has been officially announced. It's a brand-new Feng Shui product and I'd like to hear some general opinions. Go.

Iron & Silk
The Feng Shui Player's Guide to Improvised Fight Scenes
by Chris Jones and John Seavey

Chinese restaurant. Night. Dinner is over; the ninja are here. But your guns are in the car. Do you get to the kitchen to find some knives or just make do with your chopsticks? Do you throw plates or drag that decorative gong off the wall and use it as a shield? There's a hot pot of soup you could use to scald the hoods off their heads and a stone pagoda lamp that'll stop their throwing stars. All around you are the tools you need to defeat these mooks, if you know where to look.

Iron & Silk is the player's toolbox for Feng Shui fight scenes. Inside you'll find clever and exciting ways to use everyday items in the daring and reckless action sequences Feng Shui is known for. From the elaborate temples of Imperial China to the space stations of the dystopian future, from the gas stations of the modern day to the train stations of the 1850s, the key to a thrilling brawl is in the details. Those details are in this book. Breathe new life into your fights and find new use for your fu. With Iron & Silk, you'll never be stumped for a stunt again.

This all-new sourcebook is the first of its kind for Feng Shui: a companion book that's meant to be used at the game table. Iron & Silk is a reference book of new equipment as well as a guidebook on fun and effective fight scenes for new and old Feng Shui players alike.

"In the right hands, everything is a weapon."

Stock Number: AG4011 • ISBN 1-58978-047-7 • SRP $17.95 (US)
Cover Art: Kagan McLeod • Description: 72 pages, perfect bound softcover

Shipping to Distributors in January, 2004

From: DarrinBright Posted on: 10/17/2003 9:17 am
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.2
in reply to: 299.1
And I thought we'd seen the last of the softcovers... interesting.

It sounds like a collection of "Cool Things That Could Happen", which is nice... although when I'm writing up a scenario, that tends to be both my favorite part and possibly the most frustrating. If I can't think of anything cool that could happen, then maybe the fight scene isn't as clever or engaging as I thought it'd be. So as a GM resource I'm a little torn... I want new ideas to spice up my fights, but I also want to avoid the same stuff someone else came up with or has already done to death.

I guess what I'm most concerned about is that it's billed as a Player's Guide. If I throw a scenario at a group of players, and their first reaction is to pick up a book and waste a few minutes looking for something interesting to do, then the whole reason we're playing Feng Shui is wasted. I want the players to be clever and think on their feet without having to resort to digging through a sourcebook. (Yes, yes, I know... *and* I want cake *and* I want to eat it and it *better* have lots of frosting.)

On the other hand, it's not clear that this book will have that much by the way of stats and rules other than the new equipment... the press release says its for Feng Shui but there's no now-industry-standard obligatory mention of "dual-statting", "OGL", or the dreaded "d20"... could it be, dare I say it, non-specific enough to be used for any RPG system? Encouraging more clever action scenes from within the ranks of everyone still sucking on the 20-sided pacifier could be a very good thing.

And on the gripping hand... It's good to see there are new products coming out for Feng Shui, period. I'm very anxious to see if you guys have anything planned for moving the Secret War forward.

From: John Nephew Posted on: 10/17/2003 10:50 pm
To: DarrinBright
Message: 299.3
in reply to: 299.2
When Will took over as line editor for Feng Shui, I gave him the mandate of coming up with some ideas for books that would make player's excited. This was #1 on his list, and he sold me on it too.

In some sense, this is a Feng Shui equipment book. That's an easy way for me to sell it to retailers and distributors, who may not know a lot about FS. ("Equipment books. You know, for players. You'll sell a bunch of 'em.") For FS, what we need isn't really a lot of different options with slightly different game stats, like d20; what we need is to have the flavor at our fingertips for coming up with improvisation. I've seen a fair share of Hong Kong movies, but if as a player I'm expected to come up with the things that I'll find lying around Wong Fei Hong's martial arts school, I may just draw a blank. I'm looking forward to this book to give me a lot of the imagery and ideas I need for all four of the Feng Shui junctures, for getting into the mood of things and making things up on the fly.

I thought the first paragraph of Will's sell text was just perfect for setting forth the flavor we're looking for. I hope players won't be paging through the book while they're in the heat of combat -- but maybe they'll leaf through it for inspiration while another player is at the center of attention ("Hmm...while Joey describes the way he's pummeling those Lotus mooks, I'm going looking for something I might plausibly find in a place and time like this, and think up something cool to do with it...") My hope is that players will buy it, read it before your game, and show up to play overflowing with ideas for cool stunts and exciting props to use.

With luck, the book will be inspirational to all RPG players, but we're definitely not planning any kind of dual-statting or d20 content. Any stats you find will be just Feng Shui.

We didn't feel that we wanted to make the book a bigger hardcover. For one thing, we'd like to make it shorter and more to the point; for another, we wanted to price it somewhere where more players will find it worth buying. If the format and price work out, I hope we'll have an upcoming mix of 64-96 pp softcovers in the $20-and-under range and 128-160 pp hardcovers in the ~$30 range.

From: Sensei Posted on: 10/19/2003 9:12 pm
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.4
in reply to: 299.1
OK, since I believe in providing honest feedback when asked, here it goes:

I'm not really interested in a guidebook that sounds mostly like an extended "Cool Things That Could Happen" section. (I've always been irritated by those sections in the prepackaged adventures.) At the risk of sounding elitist, anyone playing Feng Shui shouldn't need a written guide to fight stunts. What action-adventure fan couldn't think up their own moves, given a few moments of time? The ones in the CTTCH lists are always blindingly obvious, anyway. And if you're using a guidebook, how long before the ideas get used, and you're back to where you started?

So if the main point really is to give ideas for fight stunts, eh, I'll pass. If the guidebook however were heavy on the new equipment, some new Fu, a handful of new archetypes, *then* I'd be interested. (Especially some more stats for non-contemporary vehicles.)

Anyway, I still love you guys at Atlas.

From: John Nephew Posted on: 10/19/2003 11:44 pm
To: Sensei
Message: 299.5
in reply to: 299.4
> At the risk of sounding elitist, anyone playing Feng Shui
> shouldn't need a written guide to fight stunts. What
> action-adventure fan couldn't think up their own moves, given a
> few moments of time?

I suspect that there are a lot of potential and neophyte action-adventure fans who could use some help. Consider that people may be drawn into the game before becoming big fans of wuxia and Hong Kong cinema (say, because their GM wants to run it), or maybe they've only see "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" and "Shanghai Knights."

You may be familiar with the Ars Magica problem -- the unfortunate reputation that you need an advanced degree in Medieval History in order to play the game. I'd hate for Feng Shui to have a similar problem, only it's expected that anyone playing it be able to name all of Tsui Hark's movies in chronological order from memory, and synopsize their plots...

A basic problem that roleplaying games have is, when you identify your target market as people who "shouldn't need a written guide to [insert subject matter]," you wind up with a target market that doesn't actually need to buy anything, because they already have the knowledge and self-confidence to do it all themselves. :-)

From: Queex Posted on: 10/20/2003 6:04 am
To: John Nephew
Message: 299.6
in reply to: 299.5
I'm in favour of the idea. The main problem I have with CTTCH is that they're part of the GM's notes. The players don't get to see them and I really don't want to say something along the lines of:

"Three masked figures block the doorway. 'We will die before we let you defile the temple of True mnight!' Oh, and by the way guys, you might want to throw someone into a gong, the brazier is hot and ready for action and the sacrificial altar is light enough for the Bruiser to throw."

I think putting CTTCH into the hands of players is a good step forward. I've found that players aren't always good at picking up hints from the scene discription, and I don't want the GMCs to have exlusive access to a pre-built list of great stunts in case they outshine the players.

On the other hand, I think a list of props is a better idea than a list of stunts- and props seem to be what we're getting.

From: Hindmarch Posted on: 10/20/2003 1:39 pm
To: Queex
Message: 299.7
in reply to: 299.6
Hi everyone,

First, the facts. "Iron & Silk" is a collection of improvised weapons, objects, and all that. In a manner of speaking, it is the Feng Shui equipment book. Since Feng Shui isn't a game about having the right length of rope and enough torches, though, it's not the standard RPG equipment guide. Players can read through the bulk of the entries before play to get some ideas. I don't see this as being any less respectable a pursuit than watching action flicks and saying "That's a cool idea, I'll try that with my maverick cop next week." The beginning of each juncture's chapter also lists some common locations and the objects which could be found there. That list, I expect, will take a player all of three seconds to scan through. Thus it's not the GM's job to list every object in the joint, and the player has some inspiration when coming up with what's in the room, even if the stunts are his own.

Now, the opinions. Feng Shui is a game, and I'm not interested in telling folks they can't play because they haven't seen the right movies. Iron & Silk helps new and casual players to get over the creative hurdle of the game and into the groove that players eventually settle into. For long-time players, I hope Iron & Silk will refresh their outlook on the game, spark some new ideas, and generally make it easier for the GM to communicate a given environment to the players.

Regardless of what I think, I'm really happy to be getting all of this feedback from you all. Keep it coming!

word,
Will
Feng Shui
Atlas

From: NVDoyle Posted on: 11/11/2003 1:07 am
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.8
in reply to: 299.7
Greetings, all - new to Feng Shui, and wondering how I missed this, for years on end.

Iron & Silk: I'll buy it in a heartbeat. It sounds like an excellent 'crunchy' supplement (well, as 'crunchy' as FS ever gets), and the price is right. I work at a game store part time, and I'll be pushing it on all of the more 'cinematic' RPers, not just the FS ones. I'd think this would appeal to Seventh Sea, BESM, Unknown Armies, and others. I could push this to almost any 'cinematic' player, regardless of system - yes, even D&D. I'm looking forward to seeing it on the shelves, and in my hands.

Noah

From: Sensei Posted on: 11/23/2003 2:21 pm
To: John Nephew
Message: 299.9
in reply to: 299.5
This is only remotely related to the Iron & Silk product, but serves as a general question...

Will Atlas be putting those cool silhouettes of firearms next to the gun descriptions in future products? (Like Daedalus did in the original rulebook.)

I like that the sourcebooks give stats for all sorts of nifty hardware to blow people away with, but unless they're accompanied by a picture, I have no idea what some of these things look like, and that detracts from the coolness a bit. (When my Killer player asks how cool an "AI Covert" sniper rifle looks, I have no idea.)

While I've bought some firearms reference guides to compensate, it's not a convenient job to have to cross-reference every gun with a photo in another book somewhere. I was just curious cuz I find the little silhouettes helpful and fun. I don't know if it's cost-prohibitive (or maybe you just don't feel like doing it or don't have good pics to use), but as an FYI to you Atlas guys, I'd love to see those gun outlines in future sourcebooks.

- Christopher

From: Hindmarch Posted on: 11/24/2003 10:58 am
To: Sensei
Message: 299.10
in reply to: 299.9
Hi Christopher,

I'm *so* glad to hear you say you like those silhouettes. You'll find new ones in the reprint of "Blood of the Valiant," actually. They turned out to be something of a pain to do, actually.

As for "Iron & Silk," I can truthfully say that you won't be seeing any silhouettes, because most of the objects in the book get much stronger descriptions than you'd normally expect from a Feng Shui book and because you already know what most of these objects look like. After all, a gong doesn't look like much in profile and the entry for "Arm, Zombie" isn't going to be terribly enriched by a silhouette.

In the future, though, when we do present new firearms, I'll do what I can to keep the silhouettes coming. I've been thinking that maybe we need to do the same thing for martial weapons, too.

Thanks, Sensei!

word,
Will Hindmarch
Feng Shui Line Developer
Atlas Games

From: Sensei Posted on: 11/25/2003 5:11 pm
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.11
in reply to: 299.10
Sweeeeet!

Well, I'm a fan or martial weapons (I study martial arts and I practice with some of these hacking and whacking objects regularly), and silhouettes for those would be gnarly too.

Thanks for the response!
- C

From: Queex Posted on: 12/2/2003 6:35 am
To: Sensei
Message: 299.12
in reply to: 299.11
Or just a big honking list of cruel and unusual martial weapons- ones that lend themselves to cool stunts. Unless they're already appearing in Iron & Silk... Plus maybe some whacky firearms with cool effects.

Staple Gun - 5/1/100

From: Hindmarch Posted on: 12/2/2003 12:31 pm
To: Queex
Message: 299.13
in reply to: 299.12
Hi there,

Staple guns? Now you've got what Iron & Silk is all about. It's not a catalog of weapons, it's a catalog of ordinary objects that can be used as weapons. I like it a lot.

word,
Will Hindmarch
Atlas Games

From: Queex Posted on: 2/23/2004 7:17 am
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.14
in reply to: 299.13
Finally got I&S the other day. Loved it to bits.

One thing stuck in my mind though- the rules for fancy melée weapons. The mechanic underpinning them (additional effect on a high Outcome) is masterful. I'd love to see more material like this- possibly even a *gasp* comprehensive equipment list.

It would read like a shopping list of coolness. Fancy disarming someone on a high roll? Use a whip. Want knockback? Take a sledgehammer. Want additional hits? Why not get a boomerang?

One problem ATM is that melée weapons all tend to feel the same- with next to no incentive to get lower damage weapons than +4. Plus, a distinctive weapon makes all the difference to a non-fu based close combat character.

From: Hindmarch Posted on: 2/23/2004 10:16 am
To: Queex
Message: 299.15
in reply to: 299.14
Hey, thanks!

I'm a huge geek when it comes to my own love of melee weapons in martial arts movie fights. Unarmed combat is nice and all, but I like to see chains and three-section-staffs used as intended (and otherwise). My hope is to put some more work into melee weapons in a book I'm outlining for the future. I can't say when (or if!) that would be, but it's certainly on my Feng Shui hit list.

word,
Will Hindmarch
Feng Shui Guy
Atlas Games

From: Sensei Posted on: 3/3/2004 6:01 pm
To: Hindmarch
Message: 299.16
in reply to: 299.15
Despite my initial trepidation at the pre-release description of this book, I have finally got a copy into my grubby little hands. At the most briefest of glances, it doesn't seem to be what I thought it was going to be, and I am therefore looking forward to perusing it very soon.

I will, of course, then add my totally unsolicited two pesetas' worth of commentray about the tome here. (It's just what I do, folks...)

That is all!

* * * * *

A WEEK LATER...

OK, read thru it, and it was indeed not what I'd thought it to be from the descriptions previously. It was a nicely done little book. I was kinda' into the illustration style, too.


Edited 3/14/2004 8:42 pm ET by Sensei (Sensei22)