In many tribunals the dominion is killing the vis sources. Leaving magi to fight amoungs themselves for vis sources.

What if a magi could via a migthy ritual turn all living mundane people into a magical creature via a breakthru ofcourse that would leave the effect of instant instead of perm, creating thus magical creatures.

The dominion would hense loose much of it's grasp since everyone would be touch by magic. Dominion aura would be unconfortable for most which would probably result in a renaissance for magus in that tribunal.

The ritual would transform the people into magial creatures by giving them a small magical might and minor powers. A bit like familiars gain when we are binded with them. People would look the same for most(magical effects could have hit harder on some) and would simply live their lives as they did before buy with a twist of magic. The effects would depend on the status of the target and his personallity trait. A evil baron might have a toutch that hurts people(PeCo 5). A girl might given beauty beyond compare no matter her age(MuIm5-10)...

I see this ritual as beeing the life work of a Bonisagus. It would probably be of level 80-100 with 1-2 breakthru's.

This goes againt the ' do not interfere with mundanes policy ' then again they would no longer be mundanes after :P

Now ... what would be the responce of the dominion / other nations / the Order itself ?

Could be fun... I have other details planned in my head by I'll wait for your imput before giving out more info in case this bores you.

Edited 6/18/2004 7:56 pm ET by WilliamEx

Edited 6/18/2004 8:03 pm ET by WilliamEx

//The dominion would hense loose much of it's grasp since everyone would be touch by magic.//
Why? I should rather think that most of those transformed would flock to the nearest holy site and pray for delivery from their curse there. Try to think through the effects some random minor unguided magical powers for everybody around would have on an average village's everyday life. Who could still trust his neighbour? Or his kids? What would the patron saint of the village feel? On ordinary people even a permanent effect of such scope would IMO hence be gradually canceled by the dominion.

//Dominion aura would be unconfortable for most which would probably result in a renaissance for magus in that tribunal.//
This would be very specific to your campaign. There is to my knowledge nowhere in ArM4 books the slightest hint that Magi, hedge magicians or somehow gifted people without infernal taint feel uncomfortable in the dominion.

//I see this ritual as beeing the life work of a Bonisagus.//
Here I can follow you. There might very well somewhere be a Bonisagus (perhaps a twisted disciple of Gioacchino da Fiore?) planning to gift every human with magic, and to thus initiate the era of universal magic.

Old Talpa Faber from Post Coch has invented his Vulgar Alchemy MuCo(An,Vi) 75 ritual 'Dance of the Satyrs' - turning the inhabitants of an area for a day into very lascivious (+5) satyrs and satyresses of Magic Might 10 - for quite different reasons, though. He just had observed in his long life, that a day of universal making whoopie dispels bigotry, holier-than-thou attitudes and delusions about human nature quite well. And that truely pious people consider and pass an increase of lasciviousness for a day as a test.

Kind regards,

Berengar

Re-read the section on the Dominion in the core book.

~Alex

This was so weakly worded that I soon forgot it after reading. Especially since the effect of powerful Dominion - "... sense a powerful presence, their Gift flickering as a flame exposed to the wind" - does not contain such connotations of discomfort.

Thanks for noticing.

Kind regards,

Berengar

Thanks ! I'll look into that...

//The dominion would hense loose much of it's grasp since everyone would be touch by magic.//
>>Why? I should rather think that most of those transformed would flock to the nearest holy site and pray for delivery from their curse there. Try to think through the effects some random minor unguided magical powers for everybody around would have on an average village's everyday life. Who could still trust his neighbour? Or his kids? What would the patron saint of the village feel? On ordinary people even a permanent effect of such scope would IMO hence be gradually canceled by the dominion. <<

Well I would turn to war of course. Isolate the nation from the dominion for some time. Sturr a great war with the support of a king and make this a time of marvels. After some time the church will have been replaced by idols and false gods as the times of before.

I was tinking about the prince of Wales taking over England while England is surrounded by a mystic vale preventing contact with the rest of the world for some time. Ofcourse this has so many implications that it will probably not happen and even if it does, it will not be all fun since as you say all will be potential ennemies. The trick I thing resides in the false gods to keep 'mundanes' in check...

Stonehedge could become some sort of New Olympus... in fact this is meaby what happened a few centuries ago and that spurred the Greeks into what they later became. Altho magical, they were mortal... living no more then 2-3 hundred years .. hmmm ... Hence their demise...

To initiate a true magical era, one would need to allow this magic to spread to it's youngs... another breakthru I guess ....

:P

Yep, this Bonisagus will get a lot of guaranteed insight about his attempted discoveries from ... certain ... sources. As for the general outcome: did you consider to locate the lab for his final experiments some 6 miles ENE of Nördlingen? }:->

Kind regards,

Berengar

Divine Intervention? Not only is Magic real (and Faerie), but God is real in Mythic Europe, and his Angels too (oh, and the Demons and Devils, but they aren't the problem here... unless of course they have been suggesting this idea?). These lesser, non-Divine realms are there (perhaps) partly as a reflection of Free Will. Not necessarily the Free Will of the Realms (as it is said that the Fae and Infernal do not have Souls and may not truly possess Free Will) - but the Free Will of Man. God provides mortals with enough rope to h/a/n/g/damn themselves, if they choose to do so... The other Realms are apparently part of that Plan. (Ineffable, mind, so we can't expect to Understand it!)

The Divine exceeds Mortal Man, including the works of Magic; it also exceeds those of the Fae & the Infernal. Individual agents of the Divine (a eg Divine Unicorn, or a Saint) are lesser beings, and powerful creatures of the lesser realms can thwart them, but nothing can trump Divine Might when there is enough of it (without going as far as direct Divine Intervention or Miracles).

The Crusades, which magi fear so much, carry a Divine Aura with them which prevents the powers of magic within its compass... all a magus can rely on against a Crusade is stout walls and strong arms - not much really.

Whenever magic oversteps the bounds set for it, we have seen Intervention of one form or another - this is why our Code prohibits such extreme actions, as they risk the lives and freedom of all our sodales in the Order of Hermes.

Perhaps you should consider confessing your desires to our friends in House Guernicus? I am sure they would be pleased to explain the subtleties of interpreting the Code...

I don't like the taught that magi are underlings of the great dominion. I see four independent realms the Magical one, the fey's, the infernal and the Mundane's(Dominion).

Now what is the dominion ? Deamons get their power from having followers. One theory could be that demons and god/angels are the same, getting their power from these soul's hense the power of god since he has so many followers.

Now god gather's all that energy and gives it back to some hense their resistence to magic.

Mythology says that the old gods banished the titans and now we see the God banished the old gods and all had thier powers from the fact that they had followers.

Now one good question is where does the magic come from ? A remenent of the old gods that left their traces on the world ? Who or what gift's some mundanes with this power and for which purpose?

<<Perhaps you should consider confessing your desires to our friends in House Guernicus? I am sure they would be pleased to explain the subtleties of interpreting the Code...>>

I like that thaught ... speaking to the house Guernicus. I wonder how many of them see the great picture.

Thanks for the taughts !

//... speaking to the house Guernicus. I wonder how many of them see the great picture.//
Talk about this in private with your SG before you ruin your character, with whom you appear to identify a lot.

Kind regards,

Berengar

Don't worry. In our game, magi die same as others. There has been already 4 pc magi death in our campain. I'm just exploring the possibilities.

Having an god emmisary sign a paper that gives you independence seems like an all fantasy setting to me also.

The thing is that if you put the dominion as the allmighty source of all power then you create a setting like the WoD where you have already loss and you are just suffering till the end...

I prefer to game in a setting were you can make a difference. Where you can do your part to save the Order and/or create a new paradise of magic...

//The thing is that if you put the dominion as the allmighty source of all power then you create a setting like the WoD where you have already loss and you are just suffering till the end ...//
The people of Mythic Europe certainly do not consider the dominion as an enemy, but as their refuge, and as a manifestation of the church's exclusive task and power of mankind's salvation. Here ArM follows medieval theology loosely. It is very important for a campaign in Mythic Europe that the ideas and beliefs of medieval people are not openly and blatantly disproven: their reaction would otherwise change this interesting but vulnerable game world beyond recognition.

Hermetic Magi - clearly near anachronistic misfits in Mythic Europe - are challenged by the dominion, but also by complex interior politics of the Order of Hermes. This is a crucially important part of the game, protecting the consistency of Mythic Europe. An even marginally competent storyguide will not force the Magi of his players into an all out confrontation with the dominion or the Order of Hermes, but will use both to keep the game interesting and childishness or dreams of magical omnipotence in check.

Kind regards,

Berengar

demons demons... still I would see that task beeing do by a fallen angel not a demon directly. Well it depens on what the magus want's freedom or another type of bond which looks at first like freedom.

<<Hermetic Magi - clearly near anachronistic misfits in Mythic Europe - are challenged by the dominion, but also by complex interior politics of the Order of Hermes. This is a crucially important part of the game, protecting the consistency of Mythic Europe. An even marginally competent storyguide will not force the Magi of his players into an all out confrontation with the dominion or the Order of Hermes, but will use both to keep the game interesting and childishness or dreams of magical omnipotence in check. >>

True ... but how long can magi hold statuquo when all of them feel the unlimited power of magic coursing in their veins.

Divine providence has no limits.

So while magi quest for whatever power is available to them, in the end, the divine holds all the cards, and magi must work within the system. Any blatant effect that will cause divine powers to take notice, will undoubtedly cause the offending magi suffering (perhaps truly deserved suffering)

Ed