I'm pretty settled on format for the core rulebook. I want it to be hardcover, and I want to use interior color (two-color printing).

A big question, though, is price. We need a core rulebook to be a solid money-maker for us (it's the profit center of a product line)...but with a new edition like this, we also need to make lower the upgrade barrier, to make it a compelling value for people on the fence to plunk down their money and buy the new edition. We'd also like to lure some of the 17,000+ people who have downloaded free Ars Magica to pick up the snazzy new edition.

So I'm looking for frank feedback. What do you see yourself paying for 5th edition? What price would really push your button -- make you buy the book without much further thought? How about your fellow players, especially the fence-sitters you know who may be looking to delay their purchase or get by with the older edition, the PDF, or borrowing a friend's copy?

One possible strategy would be for us to start with a lower price, to help promote a lot of immediate "upgrades," and then increase it later (especially since reprints of smaller quantities will cost more than the original print run).

We won't have a softcover. The economy of scale from printing more books all hardcover should make our cost per book less than the softcovers would cost in a split run.

29.95
you get all the people who want to give it a try (and are looking for something new after to much DnD, Ars has a good reputation). And you get all the ArM Players (fast), not only the storyguides and would be SG.

39.95
the upper limit for new costumers (not a lot of spontanous buying), most of the SGs will give it a try, most of the players will wait and see (if their SG is changing to the new rules).

Higher Price
= collectors item, until there is enough support (maybe).

Naturally it depends on the pagecount, I took Fae from WW as a reference, but the upper limit is 39.95.

Adumbratus

39.99$ Is a Buy one for now for the troupe and if we need more let's buy more.

49.99$+ needs to be a collector item. but Ars is old enough to sell quite a few I think if it is of good quality.

you might also this about a troupe start-up kit for about 100$ that includs the core books for a beginning troupe.

It used to be that games were all softcover; nowadays most people seem to assume that at least the core rules should be hardbound. OTOH, if you have softbound rules at a significantly lower price (-$10?), you will probably pick up some more "casual" gamers, those who would want to play, but not run, the game.

If you pushed a "Limited Time Lower Price" for a first push and made sure gamers in general knew this (hit all the game e-boards, maybe an ad in Dragon or Dungeon, a poster for stores, something along that line), you could probably create some extra buzz on the rules as well.

I have also seen a slow but steady rise in those interested in ALL rules and adventures in pdf format; one of my players now refuses to pick up new books unless he can load them onto his laptop or palm. This is a distinct minority at the moment (personally I don't like having to read gamerules "on line"), but perhaps a release of the rules as both treeware (printed) and pdf would generate a bit more buzz as well.

Anyway, just thoughts off the top of my head; I promise to think more about this over the next couple days and get back to the boards again.

That's one of the things I'm contemplating. If we had a lower price tag and a big push to get people to buy in immediately, it might serve the game well in the longer term by getting a lot of retailer attention on it when the new edition comes out, and getting a lot of new and lapsed players excited and playing.

We could even set a time limit. E.g., the introductory price would be good for three months (or maybe just until Dec. 31st)...then we would bump it up to the standard ongoing price.

What is different in 5th Edition and how is it better? The answer to that question will have as much effect on who buys it as price?

For our troupe our storyteller (who is very conservative when it comes to game system changes) is unlikely to buy it. I, on the other hand, own every edition of the game, so will likely buy it anyway.

Regards

- David W

If the ArM5 core book(s) cost 50$ more but are well enough written and organized to save me just 10 hours of rules-philology, emendation, 'Zettelkasten'-work and house-ruling in preparing a campaign, my money at least was well spent.

The idea of starting the book(s) with a lower price, to be raised at a preannounced later date, strikes me as very adequate and just nevertheless. After all, books sold early pay back their printing cost at once and do not require rent for warehouse-shelves. The better structured the new books are, the faster they will then be absorbed by SGs, put to use in campaigns and entice these campaigns' players to buy their copies, too.

Kind regards,

Berengar

As mentioned, if I had to decide my choice would be $30. A lower price tag during the first months would certainly be an option, although you have to make sure your later profit by increased publicity will balance out these early losses. According to your revelations about Ars Magica 5th (long playtesting, hardcover, interior color) this sounds like a long runner - so it might be worth it.

-fazle

I'm sure it will come as no surprise that I vote for you buying two copies at the special intro price... ;-)

-John Nephew
President, Atlas Games

There will be a lot more teasers about content appearing in the coming months, and we certainly hope that the astoundingly low price tag will push some folks to upgrade, but we recognize that some would not even upgrade if we gave them a new edition for free. (Indeed, this storyguide you mention would be such a person, since 4th edition *is* available to him and his players for free in PDF form.)

http://atlasgames.blogspot.com/2004/08/ars-magica-fifth-edition-press-release.html

Did you watch the way that Wizards of the Coast handled their new Eberron Campaign Setting? They were putting out previews and excerpts for months before the release date, both on their website and in Dragon magazine. Keith Baker was answering fans' questions on the boards several times a week. By the time the product hit the shelves they had a solid core of enthusiasts ready to use it and eager to share their excitement with others. I know Atlas doesn't operate on the same level but still, holding back all of the details until the product is released is not a good way to build enthusiasm. And November is not far off, you need to start getting the fans charged up right away.

Can't you drop a few details to whet our appetites? For example, I noticed that the fifth edition will be 32 pages shorter than its predecessor, so can you tell us what is going to be cut from the book?

A detail or two about the Rhine Tribunal book would also be appreciated. The name of the author would be a good starting point.

Have fun,
Gene

> John, you blew it. You had a huge assembly of potential
> customers and all you gave them was a press release!?

You mean at Gen Con? Yes, all we had to give people at Gen Con was that press release.

Please understand that our focus at Gen Con was not on Ars Magica -- an upcoming product announcement (albeit a major one!) -- but on Cthulhu 500, which was our major new product launched at the show. Gen Con was a nice occasion to make the formal announcement of Ars Magica 5th Edition's price, format, and release date, but it was not the time or place for us to go into details beyond what's in the press release.

We do intend to reveal more about 5th Edition over the months leading up to release. To quote the press release, "Our web page will feature previews and teasers..." Whether those tidbits will provide the level of detail that you desire remains to be seen, of course. :)

I'm glad you're hungry for more, and I hope you'll stay tuned as it appears in the coming weeks.

That, I'm afraid, would be something that David Chart would have to answer. (If you pop through, David, please offer an opinion!) And even then, it may be an "eye of the beholder" situation -- what one person thinks isn't much trouble, is to someone else...

Are we getting any companions and magi on the Ars 5th site? Are we still on target? When can we place pre-orders?

Next week we'll be doing a lot of catch-up on things that slipped while we were burning the candle at both ends to get this book to press.

-John Nephew
President, Atlas Games