Are we understanding this correctly?

The issue is that the Bruiser's strength of 11 never comes into play with a mook. Sure, he can take down named characters but so can the Killer. Additionally, the Killer can take guns that change the necessary Outcome value to take down a mook (such as the AK-74 which only requires a 4 or better). While this may be just one example, I am curious as to whether there are any house rules adjusting the way mooks are killed?

can you please give an example of a mook with an AV of 13 who appears in the rule book? I think most of them have an 8 in Martial Arts and/or Guns. Therefore your Big Bruiser needs an action result of 1 to take him out (12 AV + 1 AR - 8 Mook's AV = 5 R.I.P).

Stefan

1. Kung fu strong is correct - most 'book ready' mooks have av's ranging 8-10, mooks with 13's are a lot harder(though when you say defensive AV i presume you could be taking dodge into account). I hope for your players sakes that you haven't just dropped them in at the really deep end! Still, if you and your players feel you're having a tough time of it, just adjust the AV's of the mooks you are using downwards by a point or two (they are only mooks - no-one will mind). This should get everyone involved and also make a killer or martial artist really stand out as a butt whupping machine (so stand by for possible jealousy).

2. The guiding hand sourcebook 'Blood of the Valiant' has an optional rule called 'mook bowling' which i was happy to adopt in my campaign.
If a character hits a mook but without sufficient outcome to take him out of the fight, he instead knocks/blasts/smashes them a number of metres equal to the outcome. This is a major convention in Jackie Chan movies for instance - if JC is fighting multiple opponents he often doesn't take them out one by one till he's done (as Bruce Lee would), instead he knocks them away to defend himself while another attacks him.Classic JC films usually have at least one mook-heavy fight that spin on for a lot longer because mooks are set up for prat falls and stunts (armour of god vs the monks is a good example). This gives your players chance to deal with mooks over a couple of actions if they don't just take them down and also plan some itchy and scratchy deaths for mooks (luring them under large bells, then blowing the bell rope out, etc.)

3. Mook tactics - some have them and some don't. I tend to think of mooks in several modes. "Get them!" usually means a rush of mooks to the slaughter - no dodging or cover and no tactics beyond attacking en masse or one at a time. This mode is good for thugs, zombies and un-trained mooks. "Protect the master/ bring them to me" is our mooks with a mission. They act as speed-bumps to the players, allowing a named baddass to get away/ start the big ritual etc. They use some cover, split up, defend positions and attack like a pack of dogs (instead of lemmings).
"Security - move in" would be top-line mooks and SHOULD frustrate your players. Full cover, tactics, traps, getting the most out of weapons (always fire a couple of bursts from full-auto weapons for +2 damage without any impairment to hit), body armour (+1 outcome to down) etc. Suddenly your PC's will realise that mooks are nasty.

Finally, i always reward style when it comes to fights, and mooks are inventive assault victims waiting to happen. If a PC wants to noggin-knock two mooks heads together to knock them out, make it a stunt and don't worry about the exact maths of two attacks on two seperate targets. They are mooks after all - they are there to be beaten up or worse. Let your players have a look at Iron and Silk if you have a copy, it will fire them up to hit anybody with everything at hand.

Always remember too, mooks can have very dodgy morale. i usually like to let them run away when their numbers are lowered by 50-75% (Curse you dragons! We'll be back!)

Best of luck with your campaign.

This morning after reading over the section again keeping in mind both your comments this is making alot more sense (behold the power of sleep!). Thankfully we have not started playing yet so no one died durring the making of this question.

Thanks for all the help...

To help take down mooks, I usually give the Big Bruiser a break on the outcome... with a Strength that big, it makes sense to take down mooks on a 4 or less.

Another suggestion on playing a Big Bruiser is to use the Athlete archetype in Golden Comeback instead... better AV, better stats, and better schticks.

e.g. A character with AV 14 attacks a mook with an AV of 8. The mook dodges, getting a dodge AV of 11. The PC now needs a 16 or better to take down the mook, which is a +2. A +2 is NOT easy to roll... I think the chance is 10/36.

Actually what I did for the big bruiser (and other strong characters) is give them asterisks like rifles  so Bruiser with strength 11* takes down mooks on 4 or less..

Morevoer, the big bruiser receives this schtick for free at creation, same as the Constitution schtick bearing his name.

This is only right as he is the best at inflicting and soaking impressive amounts of damage, and he generally IS against named characters as his strength and toughness compensates for his low skill. On the other hand, he is really NOT impressive against mooks.

Dan

sure mooks dodge.... i myself dont ever actually create any stats for them though, i just give em about average, or slightly better in some cases, depending on what i want to happen..

last game i ran, it was with one guy in it, who was an old master, once he activated one of his fu powers, he had a passive defense of 25... so from then on i bumped some of the mooks up a bit

plus, i let some of the mooks go in with a hail of bullets type move... certainly he'd get hit by a few..lol