Ars Magica Certamen question
From: Njordi Posted on: 9/8/2004 8:23 am
To: ALL
Message: 402.1
In our saga, our pre spring covenant's future existense depends on the outcome of a certamen duel.
The covenant who is sponsoring us is headed by a devious Tytalus, and he is no doubt snickering hystericly under his beard, now that he has managed to manipulate us into a certamen against an other bunch of hopefull junior magi, to basicly determine which of our two groups shall be allowed to found a new covenant.
It all boils down to which case that shall be considered at tribuneral first. It is asumed that the covenant which presents it case first on the order of cases before the tribuneral, is the only one which will recieve the nessesary votes to be ratified. In the Novgorod tribuneral were our campaign is set, a covenant need to be ratified by the tribuneral.
A rather long run-up to the point, sorry! Here's my question: When the certamen is setteled, and the vitor is apparent, is there a operative limit to what type of spell the vicor may lob at the loser? It says in the main book that "... the victor is entitled to cast a single spell at the loser. This spell, which must be of the same Technique and Form of the contest, circumvents the loser's Parma Magica"
I understand all that. But, when it says "cast a single spell AT the loser", does that mean that the spell must be target: Ind? Our could you cast a spell which affects the area the loser is in.
I'm aware that certamen is meant to be a non-lethal means of setteling disputes, and that very nasty spells would be frowned upon. But I'm after hard rulings here.
For example: if the Tech & Form was CrTe, could you create a stone block in the air above the prone loser, and let it fall on him? Or would that be a secondaary effect of the spell, which you are not allowed affect the loser with.
How about certamen with ReCo, and you cast 'Rise of the Feathery body' on the loser. When the spell ends, he is sure to plummet to his death(if you are outdeoors). Is that allowed?
What's your take on this? Anyone? How do you play it in your campaigns, and how would you rule this?
From: Berengar Posted on: 9/9/2004 2:34 am
To: Njordi
Message: 402.2
in reply to: 402.1
//Here's my question: When the certamen is setteled, and the vitor is apparent, is there a operative limit to what type of spell the vicor may lob at the loser? It says in the main book that "... the victor is entitled to cast a single spell at the loser. This spell, which must be of the same Technique and Form of the contest, circumvents the loser's Parma Magica"
I understand all that. But, when it says "cast a single spell AT the loser", does that mean that the spell must be target: Ind? Our could you cast a spell which affects the area the loser is in.
I'm aware that certamen is meant to be a non-lethal means of setteling disputes, and that very nasty spells would be frowned upon. But I'm after hard rulings here.//

There is the ruling of A.A. 971 from the peripheral code (WG p.25) which limits the outcome of certámen: "No certámen shall force a magus to give up his rights, ...".
This is binding for every magus, and enforceable at a tribunal. The rights of a magus do of course include his rights defined in the Code of Hermes, such as given in "I will not deprive nor attempt to deprive any member of the Order of his magical power. I will not slay or attempt to slay any member of the Order, except in justly executed and formally declared Wizards' War."
So using the free spell after a certámen to kill the opponent is not only 'frowned upon', but could - especially if perpetrated immediately before a tribunal - be punished severely as a breach of the Code of Hermes by the tribunal.

Technically (see ArM4 p. 79) a spell cast immediately after a won certámen, if of the certámen's Form and Technique and targeting the opponent, circumvents the opponent's Parma and can - within the limits outlined above - be represented as an action the winner is 'entitled' to. Casting another spell at another target after a certámen is clearly also possible, but does not get any advantages from the won certámen, and likely also no increased social acceptance among magi.

Kind regards,

Berengar

From: Njordi Posted on: 9/14/2004 4:13 am
To: Berengar
Message: 402.3
in reply to: 402.2
Thanks for informative reply, and for giving me a new and more thorough interpetaion of what I've allready read, but didn't quite see the consequences of.