Ars Magica Creo question
From: JackdeMolay Posted on: 12/7/2004 9:58 pm
To: ALL
Message: 439.1
If my magus cracks a clay jar in his laboratory and wishes to repair it,
(1) what magnitude spell would he have to cast, and
(2) would it have to be a ritual requiring vis?
From: WilliamEx Posted on: 12/7/2004 10:16 pm
To: JackdeMolay
Message: 439.2
in reply to: 439.1
hmm and to add to the question list, if you were to make it perm and not instant, would it hinder your lab work since as per the rules, your parma may interfere...
From: John Nephew Posted on: 12/8/2004 12:10 am
To: JackdeMolay
Message: 439.3
in reply to: 439.1

I'm not the expert on the system, but I'll try my hand...

> If my magus cracks a clay jar in his laboratory and wishes to
> repair it,
> (1) what magnitude spell would he have to cast, and

I would do it this way:

Base Level: 2 (I would say that ceramic is tougher to make that raw clay, but not as hard as glass, so I'd give it a base level between the too)
Range: Touch (+1) -- run your fingers over the cracks to seal them up
Duration: Sun/Ring (+2) -- either it's made whole for the rest of the day, or you might have a handy ring inlaid in the floor, running around the inside of your lab just for occasions like this...then the jar remains whole as long as the ring remains undamaged and the jar stays within its bounds. (Plus it annoys thieves who find that a lot of your lab equipment is broken if it leaves the premises.)
Target: Individual (+0) (should cover any reasonably sized jar)

That would make for a Level 5 spell, and one that would not require vis.

> (2) would it have to be a ritual requiring vis?

It would not have to be. The advantage would be that you could change it to momentary duration and have the effect be permanent.

On the other hand, since the minimum level for a ritual is 20, the same effort and amount of vis could be used to cast Touch of Midas (CrTe 20) and give you 80 pounds of will-not-disappear gold, which could buy a heck of a lot of clay jars. So I doubt anyone would waste vis mending a pot unless it was truly extraordinary.

At level 5, though, you can spont a spell to mend it temporarily, just to finish your current work without interruption.

-John
(who is NOT the expert on these matters, just in the position of another fan)

From: Ed9C Posted on: 12/8/2004 12:55 pm
To: JackdeMolay
Message: 439.4
in reply to: 439.1

An easy fix...
MuTe for a short duration turn ceramic to clay (should be low level spont)
ReTe for a longer duration to mold the clay to shape and hold it there until the previous spell expires.

From: JackdeMolay Posted on: 12/8/2004 9:44 pm
To: John Nephew
Message: 439.5
in reply to: 439.3

I recognize that you're not the expert, but if I wanted to repair something permanently, would it always require vis and a ritual?

PS. The ring in the lab is a good idea. All my magi will be doing that from now on.



Edited 12/8/2004 9:45 pm ET by JackdeMolay
From: John Nephew Posted on: 12/8/2004 11:04 pm
To: JackdeMolay
Message: 439.6
in reply to: 439.5
The way I'm reading it, if you're using Creo, and it's an object that can't naturally heal itself, then the answer is yes. The analogy being to healing spells...
From: FujiYakumo Posted on: 12/25/2004 1:46 am
To: John Nephew
Message: 439.7
in reply to: 439.3

> I would do it this way:
>
> Base Level: 2 (I would say that ceramic is tougher to make that raw clay, but not as hard as glass, so I'd give it a base level
> between the too)
> Range: Touch (+1) -- run your fingers over the cracks to seal them up
> Duration: Sun/Ring (+2) -- either it's made whole for the rest of
> the day, or you might have a handy ring inlaid in the floor,
> running around the inside of your lab just for occasions like
> this...then the jar remains whole as long as the ring remains
> undamaged and the jar stays within its bounds. (Plus it annoys
> thieves who find that a lot of your lab equipment is broken if it
> leaves the premises.)
> Target: Individual (+0) (should cover any reasonably sized jar)
> That would make for a Level 5 spell, and one that would not require vis.

How about this instead:

MuTe with Re requisite (or vice versa) +1 touch, +1 concentration

The effect first uses Mu to make the clay mutable and Rego to keep it in its current state then shift it by the caster's will.

Base for Mu- Call the effect change dirt so it is slightly unnatural base 3. Again, call ceramic a step above raw, unprocessed clay and call it +1 over dirt. With range and duration modifiers, Lvl 5

Base for Re- You're shaping the ceramic so that it closes the hole and leaves thickness of the vessel evenly (by the standards of the time and factoring in relevant wizard sigil's) distributed. Err toward higher difficulty and say control dirt in a very unnatural fashion. So base 3 +1 more for the nature of the material as above, 4. With range/duration modifiers, lvl 10. If you consider the shaping only slightly unnatural, lvl 5.

This all assumes a hole/crack small enough that redistributing the material will not make that big a change. It also assumes you don't have the other piece. If you do, change the target from indiv to circle at no cost, chalk a small circle and place both pieces in the circle (also making sure there are no other ceramic pieces/items to distract you/get mixed into the bunch depending on how malicious your ST is). Best way I see it happening, is the magus draws the ring around the parts, touches the ring and then manipulates the pieces (this assumes his arms crossing over but not damaging the ring does not 'break' it- magical and legal terms, so difficult sometimes :)- if that does break it, then he just keeps touching the outside of the ring and the pieces float.).

Now, if it's shattered, but you have most or all the pieces, I'd say you either need to have craft skill to know how to put the pieces together, or just melt it all and remake them, or you need to add an Intelligo requisite. For this one, make the R/D/T/ tch/con/crcl. The base is a judgment call- either a different version of learn all components of mixture/alloy (5), but instead learning how all pieces fit, not what raw material was mixed together, or sense all mundane property of composite object (15) (I think ceramic is composite). So depending on that, you have a lvl 15 or lvl 25 spell. I'd say anyone can put it all back together again, but someone with a related craft skill will do it more quickly than someone without. And the benefit is that so long as you have all the pieces, the mass/thickness/quality of the object will be as it was before it broke.

For any of the above, if you want a momentary duration that results in a repaired item, the magnitude should be increased +2 or more, before factoring the decreased duration, depending on how complicated the job is.

Brought to you by the mind behind William the Wizard, fresh Bonisagus wizard (he has national pride) of the Stonehenge Tribunal (if I can get back into my PBeM). William plans to make worthwhile contributions to the Order while still rather fresh from his apprenticeship by developing greater effects for lower magnitude spells by incorporating sufficient requisites.

From: daoc2k Posted on: 12/25/2004 2:24 am
To: FujiYakumo
Message: 439.8
in reply to: 439.7

The jars in you lab aren't made from human skulls? j/k

Looks like any of the above ideas will solve the problem quite handily.

From: FujiYakumo Posted on: 12/25/2004 3:22 am
To: daoc2k
Message: 439.9
in reply to: 439.8

Heh.

Amusing after some last minute Christmas Eve browsing. In this one curio store, I saw a statue of a monkey pondering a human skull- it was sitting with it's arm out and a little down holding the skull so that it was facing back toward the monkey. Classic pose of contemplation.

As for William, not likely. Quite Christian William is.