Does the Time limit bonus apply to charged Items ?

In the time reduction description it says that it cannot make the item more powerfull than the max lab total a magus has. In the charged item desciption it says design same a regular items except for the number of use.

My interpretation would lead me to this conclusion :

Say lab total of 50 & I create a charged item of level 30 effect which would give me 4 charges. I then opt for a charged item that will expire in 1 year no matter if the charges are used up or not. this gives me an item with 40 charges since the multiplyer is 10x.

I think it is still game balanced but I'd like other opinions.

Penetration bonus yes, you can definately have one on any item. The expiration bonus I believe is only intended for use on invested devices. I've no books here with me to double check but I believe that this option is discussed in the section detailing invested devices specifically.

"Since the timelimit would only start to run once an item has been used, such a limit would be pointless on charged items - as these may be made as seperate items for each charge... "

I agree. Now which option is the best one ?

1- Charged items can't use the Time expire parameter

2- Charged items always use Time expire parameter since it is almost always a free benefit.

3- When using Time expire parameter, all the charges have to be in one medium

4- When making a charged item & using the time expire parameter, the time starts counting from creation of the item(s)

The crucial phrase here appears to be ArM5 p. 99: "... allowing him to instill effects more quickly. It does not allow to instill effects he could not otherwise manage."

"Say lab total of 50 & I create a charged item of level 30 effect which would give me 4 charges. I then opt for a charged item that will expire in 1 year no matter if the charges are used up or not. this gives me an item with 40 charges since the multiplyer is 10x."
This is not possible. As the magus in question could not otherwise manage to instill the charged item of level 30 with 40 charges, he can also not do it by employing Effect Expiry.

Kind regards,

Berengar

"Actually, with a lab total of 50 he'd be making 20 charges per season, thus 40 charges would be 2 seasons work."

Draco, you might wish to carefully reread ArM5 p.96f.
You will find then, that WilliamEx's statement about the number of charges in the item attempted by his magus without Effect Expiry is correct (namely 4), and that a charged item must be completed in a single season.

Kind regards,

Berengar

It seems to me that the intent of the following phrase requires some further discussion.

"Limiting the effect this way multiplies the amount by which the magus's Lab Total exceeds the modified level of the effect, allowing him to instill effects more quickly. It does not allow him to instill effects he could not otherwise manage."

1) Magus's Lab Total must already exceed the modified level of effect. Therefore, even though it may take him a pile of seasons to fully instill the effect in an item, by having the item expire, he could finish the item sooner. Maybe it can be thought of the magic doesn't "stick" to the item when you do this and eventually the "juice runs out". Bottom line: the un-expiration modified Lab Total allows the instilling to take place. The expiration modified Lab Total allows the instilling to take place more quickly.

2) So if the modified level of effect was 25 and my un-expiration Lab Total was 30, it would take me five (5) seasons to invest the device with my chosen effect. However, if it expired in seven (7) years, I would multiple my exceed (5) by my "runs out in seven years bonus" of(5), getting a score of 25 over the need lab total, allowing me to instill the effect in one season.

3) This is no problem for my saga when it comes to Invested and Lesser Enchanted devices. And even for charged items, it seems OK. Take a potion for example. A "potionist" can make tons more powerful love potions by having them "lose their potency" after a year or so. Do not confuse this with the duration. This is the only way to make "potionists" possible. Charged items do not have to all be in the same physical object, although the objects have to be identical. The book gives examples of arrows, but why not potion bottles???

4) Even though expiration starts at "once used" not "once created", I would be happy about changing charged items to "once created" and have in fact just done so for my saga unless one of you wise sages points out "a flaw in me logic". Of course, you could also have the timer start once ONE of the charges have been used.

<3) This is no problem for my saga when it comes to Invested and Lesser Enchanted devices. And even for charged items, it seems OK. Take a potion for example. A "potionist" can make tons more powerful love potions by having them "lose their potency" after a year or so. Do not confuse this with the duration. This is the only way to make "potionists" possible. Charged items do not have to all be in the same physical object, although the objects have to be identical. The book gives examples of arrows, but why not potion bottles???

4) Even though expiration starts at "once used" not "once created", I would be happy about changing charged items to "once created" and have in fact just done so for my saga unless one of you wise sages points out "a flaw in me logic". Of course, you could also have the timer start once ONE of the charges have been used.>

There is one thing which i just read that gives a lot of power to charged items & makes the existence of a potionist even more probable.
When recreating the charged item from an existing labtext, you create a number of charges equal to the labtotal /5.

It doesn't solve the question as to or not the charged items can use the time limit or not but does make them good even if not allowed...