Ars Magica How many dice in a spell botch?
From: Njordi Posted on: 2/2/2005 3:53 pm
To: ALL
Message: 526.1

I know there are a phletora of elements that influence how many botch dice you roll to check for spell botches, aura, mastered spell or not, evt. virtues and flaws et.al.

But all these are variables, are there a given base amount of botch dice to check for spell botch, and evt. twilight?

Previously in our saga, we have used magnitude of the given spell as a base amount of botch dice. I.e. you roll 0 on a stressroll to cast a 15 level spell, thats 3 botch dice if there is no aura. And an aditional die for each level of aura. I know the rules for aura and botch dice have changed, now a hermetic magus doesn't get any more botch dice from a magic aura, is that right?

But I can't find any reference to how many botch dice to roll if there is no aura, and none of the other variables enter in. Is it possible that if you roll 0 on a stress die to cast a spell, and there is no aura, or just a magic aura, that there is no botch dice to cast? Naah, can't be!

From: erik_tyrrell Posted on: 2/2/2005 5:32 pm
To: Njordi
Message: 526.2
in reply to: 526.1

I don't have a page to quote for you but I'm sure that every stress roll gets a single botch die plus or minus modifiers.

From: Njordi Posted on: 2/2/2005 5:43 pm
To: erik_tyrrell
Message: 526.3
in reply to: 526.2

I'm starting to think that a page referance to this doesn't exist. I would be happy to assume wrong about it however.

Also, an exhaustive list of all possible modifiers would have been sweet! Maybe I shouldn't hold my breath, but is it possible we might se such a list?

From: Berengar Posted on: 2/2/2005 6:08 pm
To: erik_tyrrell
Message: 526.4
in reply to: 526.2

ArM5 p.7 is what you are looking for: "... the base for most situations is a single botch die."
So its a single botch die unless either otherwise stated in the rules or specifically determined by the SG.

Kind regards,

Berengar

From: Njordi Posted on: 2/3/2005 2:54 am
To: Berengar
Message: 526.5
in reply to: 526.4
So unless a magus is not in a dominion, infernal og faery aura, and doesn't have any flaws which incrase the number of botch dice, he can never provoke a tvilight episode, no matter how stressfull or how highlevel the spell is?
Hmm.. sounds a bit boring...
From: erik_tyrrell Posted on: 2/3/2005 9:50 am
To: Njordi
Message: 526.6
in reply to: 526.5

Botch die are added for personal and envoronmental conditions. If the spell being cast is at the very edge of the characters ability I'd say that challenge of the spell warants and extra botch die or two.

The request for a comprehensive list things that can give botch dice doesn't make sense for the way that I play the game. I supose that I could make the following list;

ANYTHING AT ALL that makes the task a bit more tricky -1 die
Anything that makes the task a fair amount more tricky - 2 dice
Anything that makes the task substantially...etc

In the games I've been a part of, whenever someone rolls a zero on a stress die, it opens up an invitation for everyone at the table to voluntier justifications for more dice. As the suggestions roll in from the players, the storyguide counts up the dice on his fingers and the player who rolled the zero looks at the increasing quantity of raised fingers with increaseing alarm.

It's a moment of drama. I wouldn't change it.

YMMV

From: Berengar Posted on: 2/3/2005 12:07 pm
To: Njordi
Message: 526.7
in reply to: 526.5

//So unless a magus is not in a dominion, infernal og faery aura, and doesn't have any flaws which incrase the number of botch dice, he can never provoke a tvilight episode, no matter how stressfull or how highlevel the spell is?
Hmm.. sounds a bit boring...//

Not that boring at all, since there are several other canonical ways to add botch dice, e. g.:
- Fast Casting (adds two)
- Using Vis to boost spells and/or cast - always stressful - Rituals (adds one per pawn)
- Failing Concentration roll when casting (adds one)
What about a fast cast Vis boosted defense against a demon while he clobbers you in an Infernal Aura?

Kind regards,

Berengar

From: Njordi Posted on: 2/3/2005 1:47 pm
To: Berengar
Message: 526.8
in reply to: 526.7
Well, your examples of how you play in your sagas are all interesting and enlighting. And the examples of what you give botch dice for, is a good start on a comprehensive list.
But since warping and twilight are such an important part of a magus'life, and pivotal in determening a magus' lifetime, I assume the main rules would make clear how this works.
YMMV ansvers may be interesting, and give alternative views, but I take it that the rules present a standard way of doing things. And one botch dice standard sound a bit.... feeble to me.
So I might have to fudge my mileage a tad.
From: Berengar Posted on: 2/3/2005 3:03 pm
To: Njordi
Message: 526.9
in reply to: 526.8

//Well, your examples of how you play in your sagas are all interesting and enlighting. ... YMMV ansvers may be interesting, and give alternative views, but I take it that the rules present a standard way of doing things. ...//

You don't have your book with you, have you?

ArM5 p.80 for the botch die per pawn of Vis used, p.82 for extra botch die when failing Concentration roll, and p.83 for two extra both dice when fast casting. :-)

Kind regards,

Berengar