They were waiting for me when I got home from work. These two new books are stacked! If I wasn't writing for this week's session, I'd try and plough into them tonight.

I'm looking forward to reading them.

Been pouring through True Lineages since Saturday. Just jam packed with useful information.

The perspective on House Tremere is really good. Perhaps my veiw of them was tainted by previous editions, but I am very enthused by the depth given to their house now.

This enthusiasm is holding true for the other housesd as well. The more I read, the more I want. : )

If there is anything that is lacking it is the efforts of more than one proofreader. Either publication was rushed or something went very wrong. Its not so much that I have found a contradicting inforamtion as just general spelling/grammatical errors that should never show up in a professionally published work.
I am going to work on a list of corrections and submit it directly to Atlas.

I've had them for a bit over two weeks and I've had some time to digest them. I love the lineages book,

The Merecere family lineage thing was something that may take me a while to feel comfortable with. I love the crunch in the mercere chapter (especially the new spell mastery options).

The Gurnicus chapter was just about perfect in my opinion. The mercuric rituals of Fencil were a surprise. I've always felt that these should stay in the "this space intentioanlly left blank for the use of the storyguide" catagory but what they published was pretty good. I would have been a bit more restrictive regarding the interaction of quaesitorial investigations and the code restrictions on scrying but I am fond of the spin that the author puts on the rest of the code. The new spell guidlines are fantastic especialy the Intellego vim options.

The Tremere are writen up in a way that makes them more believeable then they've ever been before. Tremere were my favorite house to play in second edition but I don't think that I've played one for over a dozen years. This book may chage my mind. The new certamen options are interesting, fun and fairly simple but they are dissimilar in style to anything else in the game thus far. Despite their simplicity they are sort of a baroque rules addition, that they would not be if they were preseneted as a collection of minor or free virtues that could a character could attain through initiation.

In my opinion the Bonisagus chapter is also well done. I like that fact that original research now involves the experimentation rules and results in the creation of useful spells and items rather than just acting as a time sink.

The Rhein book has a substantial amount in it (setting material not rules material) that isn't to my liking. Specifically the proportion of magi that appear to be immorral, hypocritical, contemptuious of the code, or unconcerned with the well being of their fellow man to be much higher than my suspension of disbelief can handle. Also the population of the tribunal makes the rigid formality of the guilds a bit dificult to swallow. I find the primus of Bonisagus difficult to believe and in general I like my setting a bit less dark. I find the Rhein book less objectionable than the Iberia or Rome books but it does not fit my view of the order as well as Heirs to Merlin or Sanctuary of Ice. On the positive side the book does contain a lot of (apparently) great story hooks and I like the forest mysteries.

"The Rhein book has a substantial amount in it (setting material not rules material) that isn't to my liking. Specifically the proportion of magi that appear to be immorral, hypocritical, contemptuious of the code, or unconcerned with the well being of their fellow man to be much higher than my suspension of disbelief can handle."

As I have not read the book and infact am very much unlikely to do so I can't comment directly but it does pay to remember: "Power corupts, and ultimate power corupts ultimately."

I would say the points you make: immoral, hypocritical and unconcerned with the well being of...these would be most mages that have been mages much past 60 or 70 years. In this time 2 generations of mundanes would have come and gone for example. They would be cut off from their family ties, they would be living alone-ish, they would be stuck in with a group of people who are not that pleasent all things taken into account.

The whole "mundane" bit would contribute. When you can wrest the winds of heaven to your will...how does that change your view of some poor farmer?

Not to mention the fact the Gift makes people uneasy around you, and your parma tends to isolate you (or it did in the past not sure any more).

Also without the sort of attitudes you dislike why would there be a house Jerbiton? It exists mainly because there are mages which don't think like that. If all mages thought like house Jerbiton mages then there would be no need for the house.

I don't see any reason for older mages not to be the way they are apparently described in much the same way older nobles tended to go that route unless a strong moral code constrained them. What you describe does not sound that much different then a description of most of the senators of rome during the late republican period.

Unconcerned about the code is a different matter but I suspect at some point a mage might begin to feel they were above it...or just be so twilight struck they didn't care any more. And to a certain extent the code promotes the sort of tendancies that you dislike. A mundane finds out about the order...kill him. That is the reason my mage knows mentam so that he has the alternative of "you did not see what you thought you saw instead you saw this." The fact that power in the tribunals devolves from complicated plots would tend to errode the morals of most people since its highly unlikely that "good guys" get anywhere.

In the end the order is composed of a great many selfish individuals whose sole aim is to increase their power by whatever means comes to hand at least in my view. It isn't out there to improve the lot of the people in Europe. And from such a pool you would expect a lot of muck to float to the surface.

Just another way of looking at it all I suppose.

"As I have not read the book and infact am very much unlikely to do so I can't comment directly"

The book to me read like there was a good deal of darkness for the sake of darkness. With very few exception people who do reprehensible things will have a reason why they think that their behaivior is justified. I did not find sufficent justifications in this book to make the characters believeable.

//As I have not read the book and infact am very much unlikely to do so I can't comment directly but it does pay to remember: "Power corupts, and ultimate power corupts ultimately."//

Power corupts, and ABSOLUTE power corupts ABSOLUTELY.