One of the players in my saga wishes to fuse the spirit of a dead animal friend (not familiar) back into its re-animated body. While animals do not have souls(per ArM5 Limits), this creates some interesting questions.

1) Do animals have spirits and if so what distinguishes them from souls?

2) Can these spirits, if they do indeed exist, be magically forced back into re-animated bodies, i.e. can animals be resurrected?

Throw in any other crap you might think of.

While not answering either question, Hermetic Magic -can- raise dead animals (CrAn75 Ritual, R:Touch, D:Mom, T:Ind).

I believe Hermetic Magic can affect spirits (that's what Thaumaturgy in the Mysteries was about), so It could be possible to bind the spirits of dead animals into thier re-animated bodies...

Steve

Depends on how strictly you wish to hold to Platonic philosophy.

Animals do not have rational souls. They are not moral agents. They do have irrational souls; their animating spirit. If they didn't have this they would have no willed action.

ArM makes a distinction between a soul and a spirit. Humans have both and I assume animal only have a spirit, which appears to be the seat of the will. Hermetic magic can affect the latter.

In fact, ArM often takes an animist view, giving spirits to every object.

Regards

- David W

If I have a pet dog named Spot, and Spot dies of old age, (Awwww...) as a Magus I could make a CrAn spell to make a new Spot.

Return of the loyal Spot
CrAn 20 R:T, D:Mom, T:I Ritual
This spell recreates the dog Spot, faithful hound of the Magus Lupi. This spell can only be used to create Spot, not just any dog.

Would a spell like this actually create that same dog? Would it know all it's old tricks, have it's old memories? If you cast it twice, would there be 2 Spots? Or would it just be what the magus remembers his dog as? Would an arcane connection make a more accurate recreation?

I know its kinda metaphysical, but the implications for our Saga are there. In a game where an animal companion is lost through old age, disease, or misfortune, an Animal specialist can easily acheive the above spell and may seek to return his companion to life. This is impossible with a human companion because of the Limit of the Soul.

For Bjornaer Magi, who might have non-human offspring, this could be very important. They would have a chance to keep their extended families around almost forever.

This comes about because my Magus is looking at his 3rd and 4th generations of offspring dieing from old age while he is still carrying on (his hearbeast is a hare.) He wants his family to stay with him, can he just recreate them with a ritual or would he need to turn to calling back their spirits and binding them in some way to keep them around.

Imo the spirit of the animal is not under any Hermetic limit. If you have an arcane connection to the spirit of the dog or whatever, you can summon it into a new body.

Similarly I see no impediment to creating an identical copy of an animal.

The level of such effects is between you and your SG.

Regards

- David W

Your arcane connection is probably the traditional "Hare of the Dog" :-)

Cant claim as to Paradigm , but if you change the Cunning Stat of an animal to Int , so it can Reason , one might argue it had a soul or at least an Animus or Magic Realm Soul.
A human type soul (Divine Realm) would be beyond Hermetic Magic , so our other two choices are Faerie and Infernal.

If Spot was so loved that you had used all the possible Sympathetic connections on page 84 (His Birth Name , Nativity Horoscope , etc)
Then you could likely create a new dog at whatever age is considered maturity for a Spotty dog.

Any repeat use of the spell with the Arcane Connections (im guessing) gives you Spot again.The only difference between the new dog(s) named Spot being that they have each a new Nativity Horoscope based on the time you ended each ritual , in which case you could , if you wanted , create new arcane connections to each dog.

There could well be a Mystery based on the 'Realm of Forms' that you need to re-create the original Spot , not just a very close double.

As for the Hare family , what about Longevity Potions designed for the specific animals involved (again use all possible Sympathetic Connections).
Failing that , Vis intensive high level spells to increase Sta by up to +05.
Perhaps an Enchanted Device for the Hare(s) (a collar) that will resolve an aging crisis , environmental trigger being the actual crisis.

Abrahamray,

You already have several topics going for your own asinine posts. How about giving others the courtesy of not usurping their threads with more of your drivel.

Others have already gone far beyond the call of duty in trying to help you - as a new player - comprehend the game. The continued nature of your posts show you haven't taken any of it to heart. I don't know if you are just too immature for a game of this magnitude, or if you just get a kick out of being a moron, but it is getting old.

>> 1) Do animals have spirits and if so what distinguishes them from souls?

As far as I understand it, a Soul is that which lives on after death, i.e. Goes to heaven or hell, or gets reincarnated.

Spirit on the other hand is sort of psycic energy.