Ars Magica Shapeshifter and carrying items
From: fazleskhan Posted on: Jun-13 1:39 pm
To: ALL
Message: 652.1

I am trying to balance the various forms of shapeshifting (bjonear/hermetic magic/shapeshifter-virtue/lycontrope). This is one of the things I personally feel house bjonear has gotten shafted throughout the various revisions of Ars. It always tends to be harder to be a bjonear and carry/use magical items than it is for any other mage. It makes thier coolest trick a problem rather than a boon. For a mage to carry thier stuff they merely add casting reqs to the MuCo(An) spell and thier stuff is brought with them, but for the Bjonear they have to spend alot of vis in order to cast rituals on thier equipment shrink/grow to the correct size when they change. It should be easier for the Bjonear to carry/use thier stuff in animal form than for a normal mage.

I was wondering if others have encountered these same problems, and how they dealt with it either as characters or through rules modifications. I have a couple ideas but I wanted to hear what others have done first.

Edited 6/13/2005 1:40 pm ET by fazleskhan



Edited 6/13/2005 1:41 pm ET by fazleskhan
From: Draco Posted on: Jun-14 3:58 am
To: fazleskhan
Message: 652.2
in reply to: 652.1
The bjonear's coolest trick is really the fact that they are as hard to detect as a demon.
However there is no reason at all for them to use ritual spells to change their equipment. Formulatic spells works just as good (or for our local Bjornar spont-spells). If the magus is worried about warping, he could do as the original poster, and craft magic items designed to carry stuff.
From: Nzld Posted on: Jun-14 2:36 pm
To: fazleskhan
Message: 652.3
in reply to: 652.2

I'd have to agree with Draco, here. The Heartbeast - and other "natural" forms of shapeshifting - shouldn't get any inherent ability to transform the shifter's possessions and clothing. It wouldn't make sense.

Technically, there isn't really any difference between a Bjornaer shapeshifting into his heartbeast, or any other magus shapeshifting into a beast through Animal magic. The base effect doesn't include transforming clothes and equipment, so that has to be factored in separately. Most magi simply do this at the time they invent their shapeshifting spell, incorporating it into the very same spell. Just because a Bjornaer doesn't have to invent a spell to shapeshift into his heartbeast shouldn't relieve him of the burden of having to take his equipment and clothing into account.

Now, from a "flavor" standpoint, I believe there is a major difference between a Bjornaer and a non-Bjornaer. A non-Bjornaer magus typically shapeshifts to accomplish a function. Perhaps he needs to move quicker, or perhaps he needs to be discrete, etc. Most magi don't shapeshift because they want to live as that animal for any length of time. A Bjornaer, on the other hand, IS the animal in question, just as much as he IS a human. A Bjornaer shapeshifts because it is natural for him to do so and because he does want to live as that animal at times. I would think a Bjornaer would approach possessions, clothing, and equipment from a different light. Depending on his heartbeast, he might have separate lairs at various locations, each with clothing and supplies stored away. Or might bury or otherwise hide his gear for long-term storage. If he is simply shifting for the sake of travel and will need his gear at his destination, then he can fall back on the same magical abilities as his Hermetic brethren.

As Draco pointed out, what sets a Bjornaer apart from other shapeshifters is that his heartbeast is part of his essential nature. Hermetic magic cannot determine that a Bjornaer in his heartbeast form is anything other than a mundane beast.

From: Bearnard Posted on: Jun-14 3:26 pm
To: Nzld
Message: 652.4
in reply to: 652.3

Bjornaers' Heartbeast gives them an edge over other shapeshifters, being able to transform their belongings with the same skill would probably be too much. Talk about other magi, shapeshifting to animal forms using requisites brought a question to my mind:

What happens, when a Bjornaer magus has transformed into animal spell, using requisites to transform his belongings as well, uses his heartbeast ability to transform to his animal form? What happens to the equipment? Does he get it on him the next time he transforms back to human shape, are they lost for good or do they fall to the ground the minute the transformation starts?

From: Nzld Posted on: Jun-14 5:05 pm
To: Bearnard
Message: 652.5
in reply to: 652.4

There are several questions that must be answered, and ultimatelty, unless the Mystery Houses book clears it up, I expect there to be differing opinions on this issue.

1) If under the influence of a shapechanging spell, CAN a Bjornaer change into his heartbeast?

If someone casts a spell to turn a Bjornaer into a mouse, could he then simply choose to turn into his heartbeast? Would this be a loophole through which Bjornaer magi are able to overcome hostile transformation spells? Once a bear, would he then be able to change back to human form?

The alternative is that, once under the influence of a magical shifting, a Bjornaer has to overcome or dispel that effect in order to shift into their Heartbeast form. This can be justified if one assumes the heartbeast form facilitates transformation from a Bjornaer's natural human form to his natural heartbeast form, and vice versa, but does not facilitate transformation from "unnatural" (i.e. magically-induced) forms or states.

What if the Bjornaer is transformed to stone? Should the Art of the transformation be a factor?

2) If a Bjornaer can change into his heartbeast, does the previous spell continue to function in the background?

If so, then the Bjornaer would be able to take his transformed possessions with him, but if the existant spell is still active when he reverts back, he will revert back to the magical form, NOT to human form. He would then have to wait for the spell to expire before his possessions were returned to him. If the spell expires before the Bjornaer transforms back, the items would simply fall of him whereever he may be at the moment of expiration. There would be no magical influences to keep the items on the magus's "person".

This seems to make the most sense to me, but does allow for the loophole from Question 1.

If the spell is assumed to NOT continue functioning in the background, then the items would revert back to their natural states immediately at the time the Bjornaer transforms, and he is left facing the same problem. Frankly, I can't see this as a viable interpretation, as it implies some capability to dispel magic.

From: Berengar Posted on: Jun-15 2:41 am
To: Nzld
Message: 652.6
in reply to: 652.5

//If someone casts a spell to turn a Bjornaer into a mouse, could he then simply choose to turn into his heartbeast? Would this be a loophole through which Bjornaer magi are able to overcome hostile transformation spells?//
Not a loophole, but an explicit rules provision from ArM5 p.92, indeed.
//Once a bear, would he then be able to change back to human form?//
Yes. See ArM5 p.92 again. The transformation - hostile or not - is dispelled once the Bjornaer succeeds in his Stm+Heartbeast roll to assume his normal or Heartbeast form.
//What if the Bjornaer is transformed to stone?//
Also a transformation to stone can be broken with the Stm+Heartbeast roll above.
//If a Bjornaer can change into his heartbeast, does the previous spell continue to function in the background?//
No. The former transformation is dispelled.

To carry possessions while in animal form, a Bjornaer should best use some Mu An/He magic (base level 3) or Mu Te magic (base level depending on items) to shrink his belongings, then put them into a container which his animal form can carry. I reckon that most Bjornaer used to their animal forms will not haul along much equipment anyway, and will also not be embarassed by nudity.

Kind regards,

Berengar

From: erik_tyrrell Posted on: Jun-15 9:13 am
To: Nzld
Message: 652.7
in reply to: 652.5

1) If under the influence of a shapechanging spell, CAN a Bjornaer change into his heartbeast?

2) If a Bjornaer can change into his heartbeast, does the previous spell continue to function in the background?

I don't hve a book to give you a rules based answer to you questions but I do have an opinion. I'd think yes for 1 and no for 2.

In fourth edition and third edtion there was a will over form skill (is it still in the new rules?) that allowed bjornaer to overcome other shapechanging. I think that if the caster changes shape the spell is broken in a way analogous to the way a MTG spell fizzles when there is no target for it.

From: Nzld Posted on: Jun-15 12:33 pm
To: Berengar
Message: 652.8
in reply to: 652.6
That does clear things up a lot. At least there is a roll involved, though.