Does Leap of Homecoming work if you are in a regio, i.e., will it take you back home? I guess my viewpoint that is DOESN'T comes from the fact that a regio to me is a "pocket dimension". Even going from level to level within a regio is questionableto me using such a spell.

My troupe and I started this discussion and are looking for feedback as it probably will be important in furture sessions.

I can't recall any definition or resolution of this in canon;

IOS we have used the rule that you can use magic to cast spells from outside a regio to the base level -OR- from any level of the regio to any other (subject as always to using the right spells, connections etc!)
(ie, we convered not only transport, but scrying, and any other spell. Typically to cast any such spells you need an Arcane Connection, so a corollary of our rule is that even with an Arcane Connection you cannot reach into a regio from outside.)
Once you move into one of the inner levels of the regio you are cut off from the outside world, and magic cannot reach you.

Otherwise, regiones lose all their mystery, as magi can cast spells from in their lab to scry into, extract samples from, or step over too, any part of anywhere, and no secrets are left.

To my understanding a regio simply represents a place where two or more places co-exists (one w/o aura, rest with). Since a "Leap of Homecoming" sends you to whereever you have an AC, it should work for this.

As for keeping the mystery in these - remember that you need an actual AC in order to cast these spells, and ACs have limited durations (some no more than hours). For some special areas (regios or othervise), one could allow the local magic (or faerie or whatever) to create an effect like the "Aegis of the Heart".

In order to "summon them home" as you put it, you would need either a specially made 55th lvl ReCo spell (in order to have range AC) (which btw requires a ritual) or you would need a 40th lvl ReCo spell with range touch and a "Opening the intangeble tunnel with equal level... You'd also need a viable AC (strands of hair doesn't last THAT long). Does your magi have the time to fix AC for all their grogs? (1 season/person)

I have run an adventure with a magi who could cast Leap of Homecoming, where his lifes love (a female companion) had been kidnapped into a regio. He worked for a long time trying to figure a way into that regio (teleporting across half the Rhine Tribunal and back in order to find someone with a chance of crossing that regio boundery).

You could also, as I mentioned in my last post, add special places (or creatures) that block magic. I remember from 3rd ed a Dragon that had a power that provided his magic resistance to the entire room (cave) that he occupided.

ok actually they didn't directly summon them home, they used InCo to find them. And hair is easily found in the bedding of a known person.
(I know about fixed AC - we were the first to introduce the idea)

Walking into a regio is not a problem if you can see in, and seeing in is a simple InVi 20 spell. (Unless it's a "closed" regio - when seeing in is the least of your problems)

"ok actually they didn't directly summon them home, they used InCo to find them. And hair is easily found in the bedding of a known person."

I would, based on this, assume that they allready had a map of the regio? If not I'd really love to see the spell that they used (as the only alternative I can think of would be enhancing one of your senses to track the grog).

And for 20th level spells to be simple, you have powerful magi in your covenant... (art combinations of 30+). Since I doubt they had the time to actually invent a new spell for this purpose...

no map of the regio - remember, IOS you *cannot* scry into a regio level from outside the regio base...

No, what happened was that they performed the Inexorable Serarch expecting to locate the (wounded?) body and failed to get any reading, thereby concluding "duh,... maybe he's in a regio?"
(and in fact they had no idea where the regio was - they had to start hunting, and *that* was the story -- the point I made was that if the InCo spell had worked, there would have been little left of the story...)

As for L20 spells being simple - well if I claimed they thought it simple to Spont L20 spells I'd be boasting, but to learn and cast a formulaic L20 spell is indeed simple.
Int + MT + Aura + Te + Fo >= 20 to learn spell from Lab Text... that's say 3+5+5+Te+Fo so need InVi of 17. After 8 years game time, the 2 Intellego specialists are way past that...

TeFo of 20 is simple, after study
TeFo of 30 is straightforward in speciality, after study
TeFo of 40 is an achievement indicating dedicated study, affinity, or approaching middle age.

No, they did not invent a new spell - they didn't have their own copy initially, but traded one from a friendly covenant

Edited 7/5/2005 7:39 am ET by caribet

So he could have been dead as well... Or just not on that particular map... (and since regios are kinda "off-map", that should have prevented them finding him anyway).

Besides - If they took the time to wait 3 moons to find him (and acting on a hunch at that), he couldn't have been missed much...

Wonder what they would have done if they (after studing this spell for a season), they found him either dead, or still didn't find him because he was in a different type of regio...

InCo can find dead bodies too; variant InCo spells exist to "home in" rather than use a map - you aren't forced to use tES
OR
InIm can scry to see the area around

They didn't need to wait 3 months - they already knew the "Pierce the Mystic Veil" spell (they just didn't have it when the saga started)

You are reading too much into minor points of my messages, and missing the main points...

"You are reading too much into minor points of my messages, and missing the main points"

Not really.
I'm trying to tell you that there are other ways to maintain the mystery. Before the story begins, you (as a ST) know exactly what resources they magi have available. You could have made the regio of a type they didn't have a "Pierce the Mystic Veil" for. (there are one for each aura you know). You could have had the grog vanish after a visit to a distant town/place (i.e. any hair found would be too old to use).

>> "You are reading too much into minor points of my messages, and
>> missing the main points"
>
> Not really.
> I'm trying to tell you that there are other ways to maintain the
> mystery. Before the story begins, you (as a ST) know exactly what
> resources they magi have available. You could have made the regio
> of a type they didn't have a "Pierce the Mystic Veil" for.
> (there are one for each aura you know).

really? well there you are... I'd better re-check my play-test notes and see if I missed it then?

(HINT: I know a teeny weeny bit more about this game than you are assuming... you are also making (false) assumptions about the resources available to magi in a long-running saga)

> You could have had the grog vanish after a
> visit to a distant town/place (i.e. any hair found would be too old
> to use).

true: that'd useful advice for a newbie...

We've drifted far from the point which was: it is useful for many kinds of stories to set aside regiones as hard to reach from a distance, requiring personal visits and risks.

"We've drifted far from the point which was: it is useful for many kinds of stories to set aside regiones as hard to reach from a distance, requiring personal visits and risks."

You're right, we have drifted from the point.
My point was that there are other ways to do this, I belive that it is useful to be able to affect things within a aura with magic as well. Othervise having your covenant inside a regio becomes an imunity against all magical assults, as well as a prison for those inside... It would mean that a Hermes gate to such a covenant wouldn't function...

> My point was that there are other ways to do this, I belive that it is
> useful to be able to affect things within a aura with magic as well.

not a question about "within an Aura" but "within an inner level of a regio"

> Othervise having your covenant inside a regio becomes an imunity
> against all magical assults,

somewhat, yes - indeed. And I believe that is intentional in the 5e Covenant rules.

> as well as a prison for those inside...

ditto

> It would mean that a Hermes gate to such a covenant wouldn't
> function...

correct <<grin>>

You can have a Hermes Portal to the lowest level of the regio, or to a place outside but nearby. It is supposed to be really hard to get into a Regio from elsewhere - as may become apparent later...

Actually, my lot, being sensible fellows with due regard to their neighbours, would not desire a Hermes Portal opening inside their Aegis, thank you very much... If ever you lose control over the far end, you have a gaping wound in the Aegis shield...

"Actually, my lot, being sensible fellows with due regard to their neighbours, would not desire a Hermes Portal opening inside their Aegis, thank you very much... If ever you lose control over the far end, you have a gaping wound in the Aegis shield..."

Again I must disagree - after all, the aegis doesn't affect just the outer edge of the boundary, it affects the whole thing. Thus any being with might less than the aegis is unable to enter the hermes portal...

//Does Leap of Homecoming work if you are in a regio, i.e., will it take you back home?//
There's no rule about this that I knew of ... but perhaps there is none needed, either.

Given the many reservations in the rules about entering and leaving regiones from p.189f, like "Natives of a regio can almost always enter and leave freely, but even then there are exceptions.", the lack of general rules appears to be even intentional to me.

As I see it regiones just come too in many different types for general rules about that subject. They can be traps easy to enter and hard to leave, or vice versa.
To leap home out of the Faerie regio controlled by that Faerie lady out for the magus' guts he might have to overcome her magic resistance. While to leap home out of a regio grove where the nymph living within wants a magus' ugly mug gone gone gone might even receive enough help to require a Finesse roll by the magus to arrive standing.

Kind regards,

Berengar

Yes, that was my take on the situation also. One thing I like about this game is the lack of definition in some areas, giving the troupe the ability to tailor the saga to meet their needs and wants.

But, with freedom comes responsibility (am I on the right forum?). Thus, even though I hate to be heavy handed, it appears that spells like leap of homecoming don't function through regios.

Many thanks to all the replies (even you thread hijackers, ROFL).

Hwhnn

//Thus, even though I hate to be heavy handed, it appears that spells like leap of homecoming don't function through regios.//

I wouldn't be too adamant here in either direction.
If your players' characters know they just need to hide in a regio to make sure that no - detection or other - spell from outside can reach them any more, this is probably bad for your campaign.
If the same characters know they can magically transport themselves and any other stuff to and from every regio, it is as bad.
So to keep the mystery of regios intact, their interaction with magic should best not be a priori predictable.

Kind regards,

Berengar