AbRay, you need to answer my X-Ray question before I indulge your eccentric disease passion.

And don't ask me to explain a Passion to you.

Chuck

Your padawan is feeble.
I can feel your despair and anger.
Give into your feelings.
Kill him now.
Before he can breed.

translated into other-speak

Yor paadwin is feabel.
I can fele yur dispare and angar.
Give itno yer feelleings.
Kil hem now.
Beafour he kan bread.
Tell me what you guys think.

>tell me what you think of this idea

Useless.

>how it might be modified

Who'd bother?

Thanks again for the good morning laugh.

A wonderful morning laugh! Really needed it!

Irritated Tytalus Padawan Learner:

"No their is gooode n hime! I can fel it!"
"His ambision is great, his athrimatic skil low, but in him I their is a disturbance! Hee is mi greatast challnge yit!"

Chuck

For those of you who get a kick out of making fun of AbrahamRay - if you must persist, please use private messages instead of posting to the boards. I personally think your behavior is spiteful and juvenile and goes to reinforce the negative view many gamers have about the Ars Magica community - that ArM players are snobbish and hostile to newcomers.

I infer from Ray's posts that he is a kid - probably 10 or 12 years old. My evidence: he can't spell, doesn't understand the rules, doesn't get the hint that his half-baked ideas are falling flat with everybody except those who make a mockery of him, and thinks $4.50 for Hermes Portal is a lot of money. So, most likely he's a kid. If it's an ego boost for you to put down someone that age, what does that say about you?

I believe Ray is trying to get attention and you're just encouraging him. Really I would rather not see this kind of discussion in the official forums. I believe it reflects poorly on the player community and by extension, on the game.

I still think the best thing to do with Ray's ideas is to ignore them if you don't want to discuss them in a constructive spirit.

Too bad if Abraham Ray is a Retard or just some semi-literate homeless streetkid using a library computer i say.

Unless John Nephew or David Chart personally ask for us to cease and desist , i very much doubt that anyone outside these boards cares what we post in reply to Abraham Ray.

He hasnt complained , and at least one person is willingly helping (to their credit).
Nobody took up my suggestion of chipping in to buy him the 5th Ed rules ; if i were employed , and had money to spare , i would have done it myself by now.
If i had the computer skills to do up a spreadsheet for spells for Abraham Ray , i would have done that as well.

We all use these boards , and yes , if we act like adults we expect to be treated the same way.

However if someone still posts the same old crap after repeated attempts to help , then they can expect some of us to respond in a childish fashion , because we can , not because we care what some mythical gaming community in another country thinks about us.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but essentially I agree with Ravenscroft. Occasionally we (the forum members) answer questions with deep insight, sometimes we answer questions with knee slapping humor. I think when i call AbRay 'padawan' that I'm trying to embrace the sillyness of some of AbRay questions and my 'tutalage' of him. However, I've made an concerted effort to answer his questions well and that shouldn't be dismissed either.

If he is a kid, possibly with a learning disability, I don't think ignoring him will help him at all. Here, even if it is with some humor at his expense, he has a found community where at least some people will give him the time of day. Should we take that away from him?

I have always thought AbRay is young, and that english isn't his primary language. He has made efforts when he choses to. He has printed spells in the form I suggested. So we know he can do that. I think he can add, so spell construction should be possible. I do think there is a level of lazyness on his part because some days he'll say target 'individual' and other days it'll be target 'eye balls'.

While I feel I'm entitled to poke fun of AbRay a little while I help the boy out, I won't fight this topic. If it's made clear to me by the masters of the board that I should not help this kid out, so be it. One young Ars Magica player pushed aside because we are grown men who lack the patience for kids. Such a lovely image to tie to Ars Magica.

On the subject of getting a copy of the book for him. I hate to even point this out, but there is a way. I'll have to find it, but there is a web site where essentially people can make donations that go into a fund. This fund is used to accomplish a specific goal, like buy a copy of Ars 5 for a kid. That way the funds can't be miss used or pocketed by who ever collects the money. It's been a while since I thought about this, but if we really want to get this kid a copy of Ars 5, there is a way.

chuck

Chuck, my remarks were not directed at you. For what it's worth, I think you've been very decent to your padawan, and more patient than I would have been.

The other people who make mean-spirited attacks on a kid and claim they're trying to be funny, on the other hand, deserve no respect.

We still dont know anything about Abraham Ray.
The assumption is that he is a kid.
He has yet to be forthcoming about his learning disability , if any.

Part of what i see as good old fashioned aussie s*h*i*t-stirring is my general intent , but i freely admit to being outright sarcastic at continual , seemingly deliberate obtuseness , just because people will respond to your posts.

He is hardly in a confrontational situation with big meanie adults in an online forum (if he is a kid) , and there is nothing to stop him asking us directly to stop treating him like the idiot he comes across as.

Why should we do private posts anyway.
Abraham Ray can do private posts to whomever wants to reply to him in a constructive manner (they just need to tell him).

My preference is definitely for more productive ArM topics than this also.

Graham.

How about looking back through the huge volume of posts made by A-Ray and those made in reply to him. It should be evident that people made an attempt to help him from the beginning.

The problem is his inability to learn. More than one person has given him clear-cut guides on how to post spell and item ideas. More than one person has tried to educate him on how the spell structure works. He ignores all nearly all posts that are made and continues to make nearly identical posts with the same errors. (I am not talking about spelling errors, I am talking about "target: A lump of coal" errors)

With one or two exceptions most people have avoided outright name-calling. Get off your high horse, if you feel that much for him, try helping him. Most likely he will fail to learn from you as well. The constructive spirit was put out there, ignored, ignored again, rubbed VIGOROUSLY and ignored. At some point A-Ray needs to atke the responsibility to read, and learn.

I find it funny that AbRay doesn't even need to ask us questions to irrite us. I mean here we are talking about him publicly, throwing down the gauntlet as he... what? Writes up more spells to mail us? As he considers other 'deseses' to ask us about?

I've recently opened my own business and as I wait for customers to walk in the door, I find myself with more freetime than mere mortals should be allowed to have. I will happily write about Magic Theory and Spell Construction all day long. ButI play an old school Tytalus, if the boy doesn't use the formula or if he refuses to add, I will make it clear to him that I won't make spells for him and maybe Ars is not for him. AbRay is rapidly becoming a favorite scab of mine. I've got lots of time on my hands, I could probably spend it better reading or working on the books, but I'd rather keep writing "READ THE BOOKS! over and over.

chuck

Chuck

I forgot to mention this bit.

Greg Stolze game designer, has used Fundable.org to publish and release a small game that normally would be considered unpublishable. This same site can be used to raise money to pay for things far more important than role playing. However, I'm about to say it... we could use this site to get AbRay a copy of Ars5.

As the one who brought it, I suppose I should be the one to look into the details of how it works. I will do this if the general forum shows some interest. I don't want to make anyone feel guilty so I will make this clear, I completely understand why no one would want buy a book for somebody that has shown no interest in reading. Regardless, I toss the idea out there for the lot of you to consider.

What have I gotten myself into,

Chuck

Chuck,

you might wish to do a little innocent research before feeling guilty or throwing in the money. Like starting a google search with subject:
"abraham ray" spell -ars -magica -murray -liotta

You will find stuff like:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/dragon/articleRequests
http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A1=ind0206d&L=alternity-l

Then decide.

Kind regards,

Berengar

This is the only forum I read. Thanx! My sympathy wanes....

Chuck

This isnt the only Forum i read , but it seems a certain Mr ray's spelling markedly improves with the addition of a Warforged Icon.

He is obviously just having a lend of us and should be treated accordingly.

Looks like Mr ray is functionally literate with the Alternity system as well (which system i also have).
Makes a few mistakes similar to those here , but by no means anywhere near as many.

We can either ignore him or tell him to p*i*s*s*-off!
Guess which im in favor of :-)

Graham.

>I infer from Ray's posts that he is a kid

I'd rather say he's a troll making fun of us all. Being a kid doesn't imply being, errr, so, errr, slow. I concede it's a better policy to ignore trolls than to feed them, so I'll abstain responding as you suggest. But I'll probably keep on laughing.

Sigh!
Despite having tried to help Abraham Ray, I fear he stands unmasked as a TROLL, posting to provoke others.
I did indeed try the google search suggested and looked at the other postings... and conclude it must be so:

on our list, ill-typed and seemingly endlessly puzzled, but with an oddball bent to all suggestions;
on the other lists, clear typed, coherent and intelligent.

that's it then...

Dont know about anyone else , i certainly dont advocate any lowering of personal standards or breaches of Netiquette , but im inclined to let other Posters on the Paizo list and Gaming Outpost know how Trollish Mr ray has been in these forums.

Have to say , this is my first Troll experience , so guess i should get out more :-)

Obviously shunning is the most sensible course , but a gentle word to others may not hurt.

Perhaps we can concentrate on more relevant stuff from now on , but still chuckle at any further outpourings from the "Sweet Mr ray of life" (you all love those old show tunes im sure)

Graham.

Who has yet to find size 12 Ruby Slippers , even though he lives in Oz.

Don't the Klingon have some kind of ritual when they kick out one of there own but don't kill them outright? I remember an episode with daggers and backs turning, and a lot of rough consonants.

I think the Order of Hermes, or at least the internet community should develop something between renounciation and member in good standing. A good name for this fails me at the moment.

Well there's always an alternative...

"Why AbRay? Why? You were the chosen one!"

Then without waiting for an anwer, this Tytalus cuts AbRays arms and legs off, douses him in creeping oil, then sets him on fire.

Turning my back to him, I pick up his free PDF and leave him the waste land.

"I will go into exile and wait... for there is another!"

Chuck