Ars Magica Anyone have The Divine yet?
From: B5Rebel Posted on: Aug-17 12:52 pm
To: ALL
Message: 700.1
Looking for a mini-review to determine if its a "must buy" or a "Christmas List" item.
From: B5Rebel Posted on: Aug-22 9:36 am
To: ALL
Message: 700.2
in reply to: 700.1
No one, I thought this was out but maybe not yet.
From: John Nephew Posted on: Aug-24 12:16 am
To: B5Rebel
Message: 700.3
in reply to: 700.2

We shipped to US distributors on the Monday before Gen Con, and we had it for sale at the show. Time to the local game store shelf varies according to distance and other factors, but by now it should be reaching most stores around the USA.

-John Nephew
President, Atlas Games

From: ArsBrevis Posted on: Aug-24 2:18 pm
To: John Nephew
Message: 700.4
in reply to: 700.3
How about the rest of the world?
From: John Nephew Posted on: Aug-24 4:02 pm
To: ArsBrevis
Message: 700.5
in reply to: 700.4

We shipped non-US distributors (those who had their numbers in, at least) on the Friday before (i.e., Aug. 12th). How long to non-US bookshelves is highly variable, depending on factors like customs clearance, freight forwarder consolidation schedules, and other things that I have no way of knowing. It's probably in some foreign game stores already -- others may have to wait a month or more.

-John Nephew
President, Atlas Games

From: erik_tyrrell Posted on: Aug-25 9:13 am
To: B5Rebel
Message: 700.6
in reply to: 700.1

I got my copy last Monday the 15th (an advantage of living in the St. Paul area) and had an opportunity to look it over when I was on vacation last week.

If memory serves there are six chapters.

The first is a simple introduction and an attempt to give the reader a big picture view of how the divine realm can intereact with an ars magica game.

The second chapter concerns the Divine Auras and Regios and Angels.
This includes a treatment of the medieval take on choirs of angels and their relation to God.

The third chapter covers non-religion specific interactions between humans and the divine. this includes a goodly number of virtues and flaws, rules for tempering auras, true faith, holy magic (a divinely influenced hermetic mytery), Nephilim (mythic companions), and generic rules for divine magic that interact with the rest of the book. The divine magic rules in this chapter are somewhat expansive with sets guidlines for divine "powers" examples of which are blessing, wonders, and tracendence (along with three or four others that don't come to mind at the moment) to determine levels of effects with as if they were technique + form combinations. The divine magic section has an alternate system of warping for divinly influenced magicians similar to the way that twilight warps hermetics. Also included in this chapter is an hermetic society of sol invictus worshipers to give an example of holy magic use.

The fourth chapter is Mythic christianity. An overview of Medieval christian practices. The cult of saints with game effects for saints, perfecti as mythic companions, The socity of Saint Nerious for christian influanced Magi, and Ars Notaria as a christian magical extra-Hermetic tradition. Ars Notaria does not interface with the holy magic rules it is it's own set of rules that deals almost exclusivley with the aquisition of "wisdom".

The fifth chaper is mythic Islam, in It covers Mythic islamic practice and history. It has sufi mystics and hermetic zorastorans (I think, they could be hidden someplace else) and more that I've forgotten.

The sixth and final chapter Covers mythic Judiasm. In addition to a treatment of the jewish people, it has golem making Kabolists and amulet crafting Bal-shem. (and probably more as well)

From: Tuura Posted on: Aug-25 1:48 pm
To: erik_tyrrell
Message: 700.7
in reply to: 700.6

Sweet.

I've always tried to be an advocate of the written rule and have been playing Ars for years. On several occasions I've found myself explaining to people that the rules of Ars essentially establish that Magic and the Divine as uncomplimentary if not out right advesarial. In reality, this isn't the case given that real wizards grimoires were often a collection of spells and prayers. While I love the Hermetic system, part of me has always wanted a tradtion that 'corrects' this mechanical neccessity. It would seem from Mr. Tyrrell's review that my 'prayers' have been answered.

Chuck

From: erik_tyrrell Posted on: Aug-25 11:51 pm
To: Tuura
Message: 700.8
in reply to: 700.7

"While I love the Hermetic system, part of me has always wanted a tradition that 'corrects' this mechanical necessity."

Well there might be several of them that fit the bill for you (I've got the book in front of me now).

The holy magic major hermetic virtue unites hermetic magic with the divine realm. In fifth ed Mystery initiation is connected with the virtue/flaw system so the book gives the societas of sol invictus, the Priory of Saint Nerius (IMHO much improved from pax dei), Zorastorans, and Karaities. These are all given as societas because we won't see the true roll out of mysteries until mysteries revised but there are hints that at least the priory of saint Nerius will have initiation.

Also there are alternate traditions of magic in the book that use the new divine magic rules and the divine warping rules. (Holy magic grants the societas access to some of the divine magic guidelines as well). The traditions that are presented are Kabbalists, Bal Shem, Sufis, and Cantores. Ars notoria (the transcribed wisdom of king Solomon) is also presented with a different set of rules from the other traditions. (At first glimpse ars notoria appears to be counter productive from an xp gained vs. xp spent point of view but I could be wrong and frankly that's not the only way to look at things)

There are mythic companions (magi level characters ala. the mercere Blood of heroes characters in True Lineages) as well. The Nephilim (descendants of the interbreeding of angels and humans), Cathar Perfecti (a tradition utilizing purity to produce transcendence effects), Zahids (a tradition utilizing true faith and meditation to produce effects dealing with divine understanding), and kabbalists (again, they're presented as a tradition and as a mythic companion option).

From: Volkazz Posted on: Aug-26 8:34 am
To: ArsBrevis
Message: 700.9
in reply to: 700.4

Got mine in High Wycombe (England) on Wednesday...

V.

From: ArsBrevis Posted on: Aug-26 4:07 pm
To: John Nephew
Message: 700.10
in reply to: 700.5

Joh Nephew wrote:

// It's probably in some foreign game stores already -- others may have to wait a month or more.

And, as if by magic, the book appeared. As Volkazz has confirmed, the Divine has reached Britain, so all thanks to you and to Gregory the Great. I've only just dipped into it, but I'm most impressed - it's certainly a great advance over Pax Dei.

From: Tuura Posted on: Aug-26 4:52 pm
To: Tuura
Message: 700.11
in reply to: 700.10

Can anybody remind me why I opened my own business? I so wish I had money! I yearn for income so I can by all these Ars5 books I've only heard about.

FRUSTRATED BY BEING BROKE!

Chuck

From: ArsBrevis Posted on: Sep-3 6:25 pm
To: ArsBrevis
Message: 700.12
in reply to: 700.10

I'm most impressed with the new rules in The Divine, and when I finish reading I'll have a few questions about them. But it seems this volume was not reproduced in the same scriptorium as the core rulebook.

The monk who transcribed my copy made some careless mistakes in spelling and grammar, which I think could have been easily checked. The illuminations are of an excellent artistic standard, but some of them appear too dark to appreciate (for example, the picture on page 20). To make matters worse, the parchment is unduly thin - you should tell the scribes they can only scrape a palimpsest so many times before the writing shows through the page. The cover is sturdy and attractive, but the binding gives an authentically Medieval creak whenever I open the volume, as the pages are not fixed to the spine.

From: Volkazz Posted on: Sep-5 8:35 am
To: ArsBrevis
Message: 700.13
in reply to: 700.12

Also, I think some of the sample effects and/or Guidelines are wrong.

serf's parma, but I think InvBle has a gen guideline of level -15 for resistance, whereas the sample effect doing this is Touch/Sun and still does level-15 protection.

Or the Divine is _really_ good at large general effects...

Which is the intended interpretation?

V.

From: ErikTDahl Posted on: Oct-7 9:00 pm
To: Volkazz
Message: 700.14
in reply to: 700.13

Sorry I didn't reply to this sooner... I just saw it today.

I believe our intention was for a Level 15 Invocation/Blessing effect with R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind to produce Magic Resistance 15. Thus, I'm afraid the sample effect /The LORD shall preserve thee.../ (InvBleGen) is incorrect.