Hello all,

I'm curious how one would say, "Noble Sacrafice" in Latin.

Essentially we've come up with a controversial way for the Church to tolerate magi. The premise is if you work magic your risking your soul, possibly bringing it to damnation depending on the Church group. However, if a wizard uses magic for "good", if they go to confession and act like Christians, then they can be tolerated because magi perform the act of "Noble Sacrafice" That is, they risk thier souls for the good of the community/world.

We aren't planning on making relations between the Church and Order peachy, but we thought this might be a way to at least create loose relations with the Church.

Is all of this outside canon? YES! But the theme will be on going in my campaign so saying "Noble Sacrafice" in Latin would certainly lend to the atmosphere of the game. Any advice?

On a second point, this might be a great place for others to drop Latin Questions.

Chuck

//I'm curious how one would say, "Noble Sacrafice" in Latin.//

Simply 'sacrificium nobile'.

Your idea sounds a lot like Fading Suns' privilege of martyrs. Though to risk ones souls for the good of the community/world would be seen as foolish, not a commendable by historical medieval peasants or priests.

Kind regards,

Berengar

To my limited understanding , going to Church at least once a week and taking Holy Communion (having made a Confession and Fasted) was more than enough to show Piety and quite possibly more than was expected of people for the Mythic Europe setting.

If one was known as a Magus (by a Church Official) and following such a regular routine (say over a year at least) , would this be a sound basis for negotiating with the Church?

> To my limited understanding , going to Church at least once a week
> and taking Holy Communion (having made a Confession and Fasted) was
> more than enough to show Piety and quite possibly more than was
> expected of people for the Mythic Europe setting.

It is more than is usual, yes.

> If one was known as a Magus (by a Church Official) and following
> such a regular routine (say over a year at least) , would this be a
> sound basis for negotiating with the Church?

It depends if magic is evil or not.

Basically the problem the Church has with the idea given by the first poster, that risking you soul for others is noble, is that the church does not agree. There are a host of European priactices like this, and the Church's position on them has always beeen that dirty means cannot have clean results. Intention and method are both important.

Now, if magic is sinful, then no amount of repeated confession helps to impress the church. Confession has to come from contrition, and that needs to be sincere. If you were an adulterer and kept going back to church saying "Yes, I screwed around this week, father, and I'm truly sorry." they'd think you were an ineverate sinner, not that you were a good person. Similarly, if you were going ot confess you were still rpacticingm agic, week after week, then you are in trouble.

Now, if magic is not, of itself, sinful, then sure, you can be part of the church. I assume a lot of Jerbiton are.

Thanx!

I don't know anything about 'Fading Suns' though the name is often dropped during discussions. That's an interesting point concerning that medieval peasants would consider the act foolish. I am no way trying to rewrite Ars or suggest my proposal is canon.

While my campaign does little to change the rules of Ars, we have always run on the premise that Mythic Europe is observable by all who live it in. Just as Magi can observe divine and infernal works, the Church can easily observe works of magic. Both organizations are capable of change and compromise. While it's good to look to history to see how an organization like 'the Church' might react to real wizards, we are free to explore alternate view points. Furthermore, our campaign isn't static, the choices the characters make change the world around them. If our Jerbiton and Mercere want to approach the Church and propose a peace of sorts, I thank the players for being proactive rather than reactive.

In our campaign a tentative treaty exists between the Order and the Church based on the premise of 'sacrificium nobile'. Given the highly political nature of our campaign this treaty is being met with heated controversy inside both organizations. Numerous factions of the Church are debateing the infallibity of the Pope, and several Tribunals are considering secession given their adversity to becoming Christians.

For us, this isn't simply a hook to make things between the Church and Order 'peachy', it's a storyline that will likely continue to move my campaign far away from standard Ars Magica.

Chuck