Hi guys, It's my first post here but I read often.

I have a question for you, one of my players decided to take a familiar; an hyperactive ferret.

Anyway, while I was reading the rules about it (in the Fifth Edition) i've found the following part of the text very interesting : "Every time the magus invests a power in the bond both the magus and the familiar take on some minor characteristic of the other. This is purely cosmetic effect, but should be stronger the more powerful the effect." (ARM5 p105)

Sadly, that is the only thing said about this interesting feature that add much color to the relationship between the familiar and the Magus and I was wondering if someone came up with some system for that. Maybe involving personality traits, physical quirks or something similar.

I haven't found this rule in Ars5, but in I believe in the old Wizard's Grimoire there was a rule for Lab Modification.

I don't remember the specific wording, but I vaugely remember that we took a Lab Total/5 to determine the spell lvl for the cosmetic effect.

I'm not very familiar with the bond rules of Ars5, but I would look at the rules and make a very modest proposal. What about Lab Total/5= Spell Level, Range can NEVER exceed Personal. The effect must be the same for both familiar and Magus. Consent must occur to use power. Something that adds 'cool' and doesn't exceed Personal in Range.

Below I include cosmetic effects added to my brothers and my character's lab:

My brother, the great and might Arch Magus Bohdi Lee modified his lab in such a manner that he recieved a one magnitude cosmetic effect.

As we know this is a 5 lvl spell. In terms of spells, we decieded Bohdi Lee has "Unseen Arm" in his lab.

But this was a cosmetic effect so we modified it.

In game play we said Bohdi Lee carved a small monkey from wood or ivory or stone or something. Imagine a Minstrel who plays a hurdy-gurdy and has one of those little monkey's picking up coins. That kind of monkey.

So the monkey is an inanimate object only capable of being alive inside Lee's lab. The monkey intuitively knows what things Lee wants while he's working on lab projects and hands glass ware, chalk, whatever he wants while he's working on projects. He need not even request it, he simply holds his hand out and the monkey is close by to give him whatever he wants.

Later Lee modified his lab again, and we decieded the Monkey 'eeks' when it thinks Lee is about to do something wrong. (Less Botch die)

However, the great and mighty Arch Magus Bohdi Lee is reclusive as well and we also decieded the Monkey is violently protective of Master Lee. Should a stranger enter the lab, the monkey will violently throw anything and everything at the interloper. The monkey can cause no damage (to the stranger), but is very intimidating

Under normal circumstances Lee has no guests, so this was simply an idea. But when Lee took his first apprentice, the Monkey nearly destroyed the lab as it "Eeeck!" and threw every peice of glass war at the 'stranger'.

Later, when the apprentice gave lip to Lee's Pater, Lee's apprentice was punished by being forced to read tomes on Monkey Lore. This cosmetic effect has had a lasting effect on the game as everyone knows no one should enter Lee's lab and all students are threated with a seasons study of Monkey Lore should they disrespect an elder Magus. I assure you, the students of Nurakrah know more about monkeys than any other covenant in the Order of Hermes.

In my own characters Lab, I emulated my brother and had "Unseem Arm" become a cosmetic effect. Less exciting than a monkey, my characters lab is organized with a personal medeival dewy decimal system. My character is a control freak that has access to huge amounts of information. In my modification, my character need only say the name or topic of the item he is looking for and it floats out of his vast libary and into his hand.

Such a power doesn't benefit my lab work, but allows me to more quickly access the knowledge my character has carefully gathered over the years. While the power also works for my apprentice, it works for no one else, making my characters libary essentially useless for everyone else. This is exactly the way my character wants it.

I'm sure I could think of some other cosmetic affects in our game, but these are among my personal favorites. Perhaps they will inspire you.

Chuck

I reread your post and stubled across the sentence, "...minor characteristic of the other..."

Well that sort of changes everything! No spell effects at all. A Characteristic!

Ok, going back to LabTotal rules, I have a new idea.

Lab Total/10 equals the number or points available to buy an appropriate characteristic modification.

So lets say you have a crappy Perception, but your familiar is a Hawk. You could take your bond total/10 and gain X points. Lets say your Total is 35. You gain 3 points which you can spend to modify one trait. That is, all points must be spent, and only on one trait.

Example:

You have a Per of -1.

One point could get you to 0
One point could raise it to 1 the final point is lost.

Having taken a Hawk as a familiar, your Magus has improved his Perception.

It's unlikely that points could be spent on Intelligence.

Points could be spent on Stamina, which over time could make a Magus very strong, but I'm actually ok with this.

ideas to consider...

Chuck

I read "... take on some minor characteristic of the other. This is a purely cosmetic effect ..." as a hint to introduce/modify personality traits, looks or behavioral quirks of magus and familiar. Increasing p.18-characteristics is more than cosmetic.
I do not see any need for a rules system for these effects: some imagination - like that shown with the lab monkey - should suffice.

Kind regards,

Berengar

I agree, but the original post asked for some guidelines. I've already thought of tweaks for my proposal as I'm starting to think it's not conservative enough.

My mod is characteristics wouldn't actually change, but the specialization could be modified. So Per 0 "Hawk Eyes" +1. You don't change the stat, but in the narrow field of animal trait you recieve the bonus. A condition is the mod must be apparent, that is you have eyes of hawk, literatly. A nose of a bear, whatever.

Again, I point this out because I think the person was looking for a rule of thumb. Beyond that, I'm quite happy with Lee's monkey which everyone in our game either loves or hate.

Chuck

Even if it wasn't in the subject, I kinda like that monkey too ^^

"I do not see any need for a rules system for these effects: some imagination - like that shown with the lab monkey - should suffice."

I must say that I agree with you Berengar, no system ever replaced imagination, I also didn't know what I was asking too. But your advices and some research on my side make me wonder something : Why are theses changes happen when a magus invest powers in the bond? Why not when he actually make theses bonds ?
If someone could tell me, thanks.

Anyway, as I said, I'm currently making up a system, well more like "guidelines" for the strength and type of the change based on the cords while they are made rather than on the following empowerings in them.
I'm explaining myself : When a magus make theses bonds he link himself with his familiar in three aspects : Magically, Mentally and Physically, well the three cords. The importance of the changes depend on the strength of the cord. Maybe gaining virtues or flaws in the process. That's where I am currently (feel free to give advices and feed-back, that's why I'm telling it here. I can also take critics so no problem.)

With this system, I don't think that the changes must be limited to "cosmetic effects". I was thinking about it and well... In my games, finding a animal who would be suitable to be a familiar and willing to pass their lives beside their magus side. Anyway, that happen only one time in a magus life (normally) and the changes are decided by me so I have no trouble with that.

Well, if someone want to give advice, I would be thankful.

Dalak

Well 'cosmetic effects' is simply cosmetic effects. It sounds like Hawk eyes, Dog's nose, chicken's lips.

I went a step further and provided a rules mod for altering stats based on 'characteristic modification'. Venturing into Virtues is a tricky task. It is very easy to quickly fall into a gross misuses of the game. I try to warn people of these because it always seems to be a headache that GM's regret or 'can't take back'.

If you venture into virtues mod's I strongly recomend that whatever virtues are allowed are strickly regulated and always based on abilities that would compliment both animal and magus. You are treading into territory that could come back to haunt you!

You have been warned!

Chuck, the mod/patch-reluctant!

Thanks for the advice Tuura, I was so in a hurry to develop that system that I didn't see future problems. I'll maybe don't use virtues and flaws or use them only with parsimony.

Well, anyway, I just want to hear what you guy think about it. ;)

Dalak

Just with core 5th ed rules, having a familiar is quite powerfull. The cosmetic effects given thru the bond should be just that, cosmetic.

Let us say the the bond is with a magical hawk that has the power to teleport himself a few paces away &/or move thru objects.

The Magus instills a power into the bond so that he might fly with his hawk. The Magus might then develop an interest in hunting mices or you might develop a taste for flying (preferring that to any other means of travel) or again might see his skin change a bit to resemble the skin of the hawk it self.

None of the cosmetic changes have an impact on the stats of the magus. An evil SG could force some changes when too powerfull spells are invested. Aldo a haws does not migrate, I don't know if they did according to medieval paradigm. If they did, the need to migrate from time to time could be an interesting side effect of the power invested :P

Try to go along the same lines as the spell's invested effect. These cosmetic effect can help you explore area that your magus could not do along without stepping out of the concept of the caracter.