Hi all

Problem is this: Items get +2 penetration score for every +1 level of effect. This is ok on enchanted items and lesser items but on charged items it seems like the penetration gets blown out of all proportion. The example from our current campaign is our local Verditus player who has managed to concoct a salve that can hold an animal motionless for a day with a penetration of 62!! Now considering these are only his average arts and he is only about 8 years out of gauntlet it just doesn't seem right.

I know this has been discussed in the past but I cannot seem to find any answers about it. Is there any official word about the penetration of charged items or even your opinions on house rules.

I'm of the opinion that this should be something like 1 for 1 on charged items but what do tou think?

I agree with you. Penetration totals on charged items tend to be way over the top.

If my players expect any trouble (and often even if they don't), charged items are what they will do. The first season is used to do a charged item with the absolute maximum penetration for the total that is possible, and on the second season you then get six to ten similar items (depending on the original items actual level).

When we were playing Calebais, our group's Flambeau had created charged items that could penetrate the Might of any ghost in the covenant (not that they used them on many, but still); and that was taking into account that he had to use Mentem instead of Ignem to affect them (actually he had created a variant of the Pilum of Fire that also affects spirits). The characters were then about 10 years out of apprenticeship.

I would lime my game to use these house rules:

Charged Items: No modified effect

Logic behind it: Charged items cary no vis to support any kind of enhencements to the spell effect invested in the item.

Lesser items: Modified effects up to level of the original spell
Logic: The invested vis can support some enhencements

Major Item: no restrictions on modified effect
Logic: Vim vis can carry any type of enhencements that the creator can handle.

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My SG simply opts for the 4th Ed rules but I find it bring other problems...

For all items, in regards to penetration, I recommand using those simple rules. Othewise, game balance is in danger, in my opinion. I think I already talked of that here long ago ?

Added effect:
(add to the level of effect of a item's effect)

+0 -> No penetration

+4 -> Penetration = the same penetration as would have the mage casting the "spell effect" of the item, as he would a spell. "The spell effect" here is the one unmodiffied by item effect (like 3 use per day, trigger, penetration, etc)

+8 -> Same as for +4, but with the actual casting total of the person using the item. Note that this mean that a non-mage wielding the item would use the item effect with no penetration.

Exemple:
Pilum of Fire Wand CrIg20
+2 -> 3 uses per day
Creator has 35 of casting total in Creo Ignem

#A Is a mage with 50 of casting total in Creo Ignem
#B Is the gardener.

Option +0 -> Pen = 0(or none) for A or B

Option +4 -> Pen = 15 for A or B

Option +8 -> Pen = 30 for A, and Pen = 0 for B