Greetings to all, happy to be on the Atlas forums, discussing such fine RPG specimens as ArM and Feng Shui.

I have been very positively impressed about the outstanding quality of the ArM 5th rulebook and True Lineages, so much that I'm downright fretting and nervously pacing to have 5th Ed. versions of all the nifty bits to be found in fourth edition supplements, and especially to get stuff like Mysteries, faerie hybrids, pious magic and the like unified in the new Virtue and Mystae rules.

Getting to the point, I recently became aware that a slew of additonal rules on these topics were already published in Hermes Portal (such as fourth edition versions of stuff like the Merinita, Bjornaer, and Numerology mysteries). Since I find Mystae and Hermetic breakthroughs to be one of the most nifty elements of ArM (as they easily allow to expand and customize a character's magic abilities), and it will take a year to have both Mysteries revised and Mystery Cults (and much more to have the full array of Realms books), I would be extremely grateful if someone in the know would give me some general description or review of the following rules published in Hermes Portal, so I can decide whether to get them as a stopgap. Not asking for every detail, of course, just a general picture.

Bjornaer Mysteries, by Erik Dahl (rules for shapeshifting and Bjornaer mystae)

Merinita Mysteries, by David Chart (new rules for Faerie Magic, using mystae based in House Merinita)

More Merinita Mysteries, by Scott D. Orr (flavorful additions to HP4's "Merinita Mysteries")

The Galdor Mysteries, by David Woods (bringing galdramen into Hermetic magic)

Ars Mathematica: Mathematics, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (the Mystery of numerology)

Ars Sympathia, by Mark Shirley (a new mysta based in the Law of Sympathy)

The Realm of Magic, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (discussion and characteristics of the Magic Realm)

Bonisagus Redux: Magic Theory Revised, by Erik Dahl (ideas for modifying the magic system) (I'm especially interested in rules that make healing and creation magic somehow less rigidly constrained by vis and ritual requirements).

Advancing Hermetic Theory Without Unbalancing Your Game, by Tyler Larson (researching discoveries)

The Hermetic University, by Niall Christie (rules for university covenants and group study)

Especially. But I'm also intrigued by these topics:

Deus ex Magica, by Erik Dahl (natural and pious magic, two paths for pious magi) (Is this made obsolete by Divine, or still useful ?)

Towards a New Learning Model, by Sean Michael Winslow (revising Abilities for mystae and breakthroughs)

The Magic of the Founders, by David Chart (Mercurian magic and mastering spells) (Is this made obsolete by new mercurian virtues in 5th ed rulebook, or still useful ?)

The Miraculous World, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (studies of the Lyceum for Empirical Metaphysics)

I would also be quite grateful if someone could give me some info about the new rules for the hybrid divine/hermetic magic and the pure non-Hermetic divine magic traditions in RoP: Divine, and on the quasi-mystae paths of power (forest magic ?) that I've fuzzily heard may be found in the Rhine Tribunal book.

I'm behind the game regarding Hermes portal (I had problems downloading issues five and six becuase of the ancient software I used at the time, I never got back to it) but we did have a discussion on the different magical traditions in RoP: Divine a few weeks ago. It is in this thread;

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=atlasgames&msg=700.1

Also you should know that magical breakthroughs are covered in the Bonisagus chapter of HoH: True Lineages

Edited 10/7/2005 11:31 am ET by erik_tyrrell

Uhm, I see. Thnx for the answer. RoP:D seems to be rather cool (differently from Pax Dei, which I downright hated since it made Divine power so overwhelming and omnipresent that the slighest whiff of it made Magic and Faerie powers irrelevant). Could you please expose a bit more about the characteristics of Holy Magic, and its similarities and differences with 4th Ed Mysteries' Theurgy ? Since I seem to understand that some Zoroastrian and/or Mithraic secret societes that were Theurgic Mysteries have been recasted as Holy Magic Mysteries in RoP:D.

Do I need RoP:D to have theurgic hermetics in 5th Ed ?

Also, if someone could explain me what are the Forest Paths in GotR ? I am getting the impressions they are very similar to Mysteries.

//Uhm, I see. Thnx for the answer. RoP:D seems to be rather cool (differently from Pax Dei, which I downright hated since it made Divine power so overwhelming and omnipresent that the slighest whiff of it made Magic and Faerie powers irrelevant). Could you please expose a bit more about the characteristics of Holy Magic, and its similarities and differences with 4th Ed Mysteries' Theurgy ? Since I seem to understand that some Zoroastrian and/or Mithraic secret societes that were Theurgic Mysteries have been recasted as Holy Magic Mysteries in RoP:D. //

Holy magic is an entirely different animal than theurgy from the mysteries 4th ed.

holy magic is in many ways similar to the outer mystery of faerie magic that is covered in the fifth ed core book, in that you get to use the bonuses for holy auras and you get a handful of new range/duration/target options. Holy magic also lets you use the method/power guidelines of holy magic as technique/form guidelines in hermetic magic. There is a downside to holy magic in that you are encouraged to give up secular hermetic magic which involves a good deal of relearning if your character didn't start out with holy magic

//Do I need RoP:D to have theurgic hermetics in 5th Ed ? //

My guess is that you'll need Mysteries revised.

However there is a collection of rites called Ars Notaria in RoP: Divine, that name was used for Theurgy in the Mysteries 4th ed., but it has nothing to do with getting Daimions to do all of your work for you.

//Also, if someone could explain me what are the Forest Paths in GotR ? I am getting the impression they are very similar to Mysteries.//

They're certainly very like the description of mysteries from the core book but they were developed long before Mysteries revised. As mysteries revised hasn't been released yet I can't tell you how similar they are.

Using the forrest paths, a magus makes a connection with a spirit of one of the forests. They then do a quest/ordeal and recieve a minor virtue and a counter balancing minor flaw. The magus may then at some later time perform a second quest/ordeal and recieve a major virtue counterbalanced by a major flaw.

I've repeatedly tried to subscribe to Hermes Portal, but without any results. I've mailed the administrator as I'm in the Euro zone (Spain) but have received no reply whatsoever.

Is there anybody from the portal who can help me? I'm mainly interested in some of the back issues (9 to 11), as well as the new ones.

I would greatly appreciate any help on this regard.

Irioth (>) wrote:

> I would be extremely grateful if someone in the know would give me
> some general description or review of the following rules published
> in Hermes Portal, so I can decide whether to get them as a stopgap.
> Not asking for every detail, of course, just a general picture.

I'll do my best. I wrote a couple of them, so while I might be somewhat biased, I should also be fairly accurate, at least about what they contain. The others I will have to do from memory, since I keep my back issues on a computer that is currently elsewhere. However, there is also a review of issues 1-3 on RPG.net, written by Alex White, that might give you some more insight.

Also, you can download a preview of several of these issues at http://hermesportal.fr.st/, and it looks like in most cases there's an excerpt of the article you're interested in.

> Bjornaer Mysteries, by Erik Dahl (rules for shapeshifting and
> Bjornaer mystae)

That article was an attempt to answer some questions that came up often in my saga, namely how to deal mechanically with Bjornaers changing shape. Also, it was suggested many times in Fourth Edition that Bjornaer magi could acquire additional shapes, but apart from a brief mention in the Medieval Bestiary Revised, there wasn't much as far as rules went. I tried to write an interesting path of mysteries that would address that need.

> Merinita Mysteries, by David Chart (new rules for Faerie Magic,
> using mystae based in House Merinita)

The Line Editor wrote that article, basically revising Faerie Magic from the /Wizard's Grimoire/ to make it more balanced and introducing a mystery path as in The Mysteries. Interestingly, the outer mystery Faerie Magic from Fifth Edition looks nearly identical to the first Virtue on this article's path.

> More Merinita Mysteries, by Scott D. Orr (flavorful additions to
> HP4's "Merinita Mysteries")

I found this article a welcome addition to the previous one; they complement each other extremely well, and this one gave me a lot of ideas for characters in my game. I believe it addressed the imaginative, speculative side of faeries, while David's article focused more on Faerie and Glamour.

> The Galdor Mysteries, by David Woods (bringing galdramen into
> Hermetic magic)

I don't remember much about this article, I'm afraid.

> Ars Mathematica: Mathematics, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (the
> Mystery of numerology)

I thought this was an interesting read, though I don't remember using it in my game. Obviously, it's a nice counterpart to The Mysteries, being some of the material that got cut.

> Ars Sympathia, by Mark Shirley (a new mysta based in the Law of
> Sympathy)

I thought this was clever. Now that every magus in Fifth Edition uses the Law of Sympathy to boost Penetration, I think a mystery path based on the other uses would be very interesting to introduce.

> The Realm of Magic, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (discussion
> and characteristics of the Magic Realm)

I remember being puzzled by this, but interested. I think I didn't agree with the authors' interpretation of Magic, and that kind of colored my opinion of it. I adored the artwork, that I remember vividly. Sorry I can't remember much else, though.

> Bonisagus Redux: Magic Theory Revised, by Erik Dahl (ideas for
> modifying the magic system) (I'm especially interested in rules
> that make healing and creation magic somehow less rigidly
> constrained by vis and ritual requirements).

This article was designed to redesign the magic system so that I could determine the effects of a spell in my game without having to refer to the guidelines. I had some ideas for using vis and rituals, and I came up with some mystery Virtues for Bonisagus, Guernicus, Mercere and Verditius, who I imagined being fairly close. Many of these ideas made their way (much altered) into True Lineages. As far as creation and healing magic being less constrained, well, I did discuss that, but I'm not sure how useful it will be for you in a Fifth Edition game. Perhaps it would give you ideas?

> Advancing Hermetic Theory Without Unbalancing Your Game, by Tyler
> Larson (researching discoveries)

I was a big advocate of these rules when they came out. I remember being completely convinced by his arguments for revamping the experimental system, and pleased with his suggestions for doing so.

> The Hermetic University, by Niall Christie (rules for university
> covenants and group study)

I liked this article too, though I didn't get a chance to use it.

> Deus ex Magica, by Erik Dahl (natural and pious magic, two paths
> for pious magi) (Is this made obsolete by Divine, or still useful ?)

You might look at the first half of that article, which deals with Natural Magic, and that isn't addressed at all in The Divine.

> Towards a New Learning Model, by Sean Michael Winslow (revising
> Abilities for mystae and breakthroughs)

D'oh, I don't remember this article, I'm afraid.

> The Magic of the Founders, by David Chart (Mercurian magic and
> mastering spells) (Is this made obsolete by new mercurian virtues
> in 5th ed rulebook, or still useful ?)

The ideas about the Founders and how they used magic are a fascinating read. I was quite inspired by that article.

> The Miraculous World, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (studies of
> the Lyceum for Empirical Metaphysics)

I'm a little hazy on this one as well. :/

> I would also be quite grateful if someone could give me some info
> about the new rules for the hybrid divine/hermetic magic and the
> pure non-Hermetic divine magic traditions in RoP: Divine, and on
> the quasi-mystae paths of power (forest magic ?) that I've fuzzily
> heard may be found in the Rhine Tribunal book.

It looks like others have addressed these questions, but let me know if I can add anything.

And hey, I highly recommend the Hermes' Portal 1223/2005-1224/2006 swimsuit calendar. Fully illustrated, provocatively (but tastefully) posed Hermetic magae of historical significance, and there's also a bunch of story hooks and fun ideas spread throughout. It has holidays, saints' days, and even red-letter dates in the Order, all in an astrological format, from Aries (March-April) to Pisces (February-March). If I recall correctly, Myth October is Diedne, and it includes an idea for one of her spontaneous healing rituals. (I'm sure that I'd encourage you to get it even if I wasn't one of the contributors.)

ErikTDahl wrote:

>>I'll do my best. I wrote a couple of them, so while I might be somewhat biased, I should also be fairly accurate, at least about what they contain. The others I will have to do from memory, since I keep my back issues on a computer that is currently elsewhere. However, there is also a review of issues 1-3 on RPG.net, written by Alex White, that might give you some more insight.>>

Thank you for answering my question. I was rather hoping for fishing one of the original authors (especially when I noticed some of HP authors got to be ArM authors and I noticed several ideas that first appeared in HP got to become 5th canon. However, some of the stuff that already appeared in HP won't surface in official book for quite saome time, such as House Mysteries and the magic realm, or extensive rules for familiars, so you may understand my eagerness to put my hands on the thing most close to canon ;)

I am already convinced they are very good quality stuff from reading the excerpts, so I don't need be reassured about your bias, I'm happy to have got your attention, as the House Mysteries stuff is what i'm most interested in. Seen the review, thanks, it got me salivating all the more (Dragon Heartbeast :-0 Man, you know how to get a guy separate from his hard-won money.

In your opinion, may yours, David's and Scott's systems be used, in combination with Arm4 Mysteries, as an effective stopgap comprehansive system for mystae till Mysteries revised and Mystery Cults arrive ? That's the facet of ArM I feel most the lack of (well, that and the complete set of realm books). I am aware that one has to assign all non-Arm5 Mystery virtues or flaws either a minor or major value, but apart of this it should work like a breeze, right ? Get an initiation, pick a flaw for every value. Do you have any special suggestion for conversion ?

> Bjornaer Mysteries, by Erik Dahl (rules for shapeshifting and
> Bjornaer mystae)

>>That article was an attempt to answer some questions that came up often in my saga, namely how to deal mechanically with Bjornaers changing shape. Also, it was suggested many times in Fourth Edition that Bjornaer magi could acquire additional shapes, but apart from a brief mention in the Medieval Bestiary Revised, there wasn't much as far as rules went. I tried to write an interesting path of mysteries that would address that need.>>

Indeed your rules would patch one of the most glaring lacks of development in old ArM editions. And from the hints in the excerpt and the rpg.net review, it's very good quality and just what I was looking for. At the top of my to-buy list.

> Merinita Mysteries, by David Chart (new rules for Faerie Magic,
> using mystae based in House Merinita)

>>The Line Editor wrote that article, basically revising Faerie Magic from the /Wizard's Grimoire/ to make it more balanced and introducing a mystery path as in The Mysteries. Interestingly, the outer mystery Faerie Magic from Fifth Edition looks nearly identical to the first Virtue on this article's path.>>

Seen the excerpt, and this is the stuff I wish most rabidly to get, along with your bjornaer stuff. All the more so since I got a strong feeling that Mystery Cults Inner Mysteries won't get to be all too different from these articles. Merinita and Bjornaer get to be some of my preferred Houses, along with Flambeau and Tytalus, so I expect this will get significant use from me, at least as much as theurgist, alchemist or augury mysteries. Another top to-buy item.

> More Merinita Mysteries, by Scott D. Orr (flavorful additions to
> HP4's "Merinita Mysteries")

>>I found this article a welcome addition to the previous one; they complement each other extremely well, and this one gave me a lot of ideas for characters in my game. I believe it addressed the imaginative, speculative side of faeries, while David's article focused more on Faerie and Glamour.>>

Then this gets to be another indispensable buy, along with yours' and David's article. Faerie magic (and the Heartbeast) make much more sense as mystae than the hodgepodge set of virtues they were in previous editions.

Just wondering: how these Mysteries rules fit with the expanded rules for faerie companions and characters with Faerie Blood in Faeries Arm4 ? That was another bit I loved, and it will be a long, long time before we get the RoP: Faerie book. :-((

> Ars Mathematica: Mathematics, by Adam Bank and Jeremiah Genest (the
> Mystery of numerology)

>>I thought this was an interesting read, though I don't remember using it in my game. Obviously, it's a nice counterpart to The Mysteries, being some of the material that got cut.>>

> Ars Sympathia, by Mark Shirley (a new mysta based in the Law of
> Sympathy)

>>I thought this was clever. Now that every magus in Fifth Edition uses the Law of Sympathy to boost Penetration, I think a mystery path based on the other uses would be very interesting to introduce.>>

OK, additions to the four main Mysteries. Other stuff I'm sure going to buy.

> Bonisagus Redux: Magic Theory Revised, by Erik Dahl (ideas for
> modifying the magic system) (I'm especially interested in rules
> that make healing and creation magic somehow less rigidly
> constrained by vis and ritual requirements).

>>This article was designed to redesign the magic system so that I could determine the effects of a spell in my game without having to refer to the guidelines. I had some ideas for using vis and rituals, and I came up with some mystery Virtues for Bonisagus, Guernicus, Mercere and Verditius, who I imagined being fairly close. Many of these ideas made their way (much altered) into True Lineages. As far as creation and healing magic being less constrained, well, I did discuss that, but I'm not sure how useful it will be for you in a Fifth Edition game. Perhaps it would give you ideas?>>

> Advancing Hermetic Theory Without Unbalancing Your Game, by Tyler
> Larson (researching discoveries)

>>I was a big advocate of these rules when they came out. I remember being completely convinced by his arguments for revamping the experimental system, and pleased with his suggestions for doing so.>>

Well, I've already got True Lineages, so I'm uncertain. How much extra stuff from that article did not appear in there ? Mysteries for other Houses ? That teases me. Your work on Mercere and Mutantum magic was rather good in giving back some interest to what always seemed me a very dull character concept, even if Mercere still isn't my first pick, I'm rather partial toward "wild-eyed nature mystic" (Bjornaer, Merinita, Ex Miscellanea; I will always regret Diedne was purged, and I'm very happy to have at least the virtue back) or "fearless power-hungry warrior sorcerer" (Flambeau, Tytalus) as character concepts.

Mutantum and heroic virtues are quite good, so good in fact that I rather think Boosted, Tamed and Pagan belong in the core rulebook. I'm only quite dubious about making vis Boosting an Hermetic Virtue instead of mainstream Hermetic magic as it was. But at the worst, making Boosted magic standard practice is ju...[Message truncated]

Irioth (>) and I (>>) wrote:

> Dragon Heartbeast :-0 Man, you know how to get a guy separate from
> his hard-won money.

Thanks. I quite enjoyed trying out those rules after I wrote them. :)

> In your opinion, may yours, David's and Scott's systems be used, in
> combination with Arm4 Mysteries, as an effective stopgap
> comprehansive system for mystae till Mysteries revised and Mystery
> Cults arrive ? That's the facet of ArM I feel most the lack of
> (well, that and the complete set of realm books).

Sure. Well, I don't know about comprehensive, since the articles were rather short and there will probably be a lot more information in the book on the Mystery Houses. Also, it's not too long until /The Mysteries, Revised/ comes out, and that might make adapting the ideas you find in HP a little easier.

> I am aware that one has to assign all non-Arm5 Mystery virtues or
> flaws either a minor or major value, but apart of this it should
> work like a breeze, right ? Get an initiation, pick a flaw for
> every value. Do you have any special suggestion for conversion ?

As a storyguide, I would suggest that you don't allow any characters to begin the saga with any inner mystery Virtues. That will make it easier to introduce your adapted Virtues into the game in a way that keeps what's coming secret, so that you can actually play through the initiation into the deeper secrets of the House. Then, if you're still running that saga when the later books come out, you can introduce other ideas then, as separate branches of knowledge instead of a whole package deal.

Also, I have to say that my articles in particular were a bit light on the philosophy of the House; I don't really go into /why/ Bjornaers have heartbeasts, or more importantly why some of them would develop multiple heartbeasts. I suggest you think about that a bit, so that you have a good story rationale for the Virtues I came up with if you use them. The same goes for David's and Scott's articles, I would say.

> All the more so since I got a strong feeling that Mystery Cults
> Inner Mysteries won't get to be all too different from these
> articles.

Obviously I can't offer you any ideas about the contents of unpublished books, but I would suggest you look at /True Lineages/ as an example of the sort of treatment each of the Houses is likely to receive. I used my ideas from "Bonisagus Redux" as a starting point for some of the Mercere magic, but the final results were very different. Surely the Mystery Houses will also contain a great deal of new material, and while some of it may be adaptations of the ideas found in previous editions, there will undoubtedly be some surprises, too.

> Merinita and Bjornaer get to be some of my preferred Houses, along
> with Flambeau and Tytalus, so I expect this will get significant
> use from me, at least as much as theurgist, alchemist or augury
> mysteries. Another top to-buy item.

Incidentally, both Merinita (Pisces) and Bjornaer (Taurus) appear in the Hermetic swim-suit calendar. :P I'm throwing out another blatant plug for that because Eric doesn't really mention it on the HP site, apart from a quick reference in the news. I don't know how he's selling it, but I imagine it's basically an extra issue. Perhaps he'd be willing to discount it, now that half the year is over?

> Just wondering: how these Mysteries rules fit with the expanded
> rules for faerie companions and characters with Faerie Blood in
> Faeries Arm4 ? That was another bit I loved, and it will be a long,
> long time before we get the RoP: Faerie book. :-((

I think those rules were exclusively for magi, I'm afraid. They might give you ideas for powers faeries might have, though.

> Well, I've already got True Lineages, so I'm uncertain. How much
> extra stuff from that article did not appear in there ?

Most of the article deals with revamping the Fourth Edition magic system, so I'd say only a small amount of it made it into /True Lineages/, like less than a quarter. That's a really good issue to get anyway, though, since there's so much other material in it that seems to be in line with your interests.

> Mysteries for other Houses ? That teases me.

I don't want to get your hopes up too much... it was a path of four mysteries that I described as appealing to Bonisagus, Guernicus, Mercere and Veriditius as magi in the "inner circle" of the Order, so to speak. Not really House Mysteries per se.

> Your work on Mercere and Mutantum magic was rather good in giving
> back some interest to what always seemed me a very dull character
> concept, even if Mercere still isn't my first pick,

Why thank you! I remember trying to come up with new directions to take a focus in Muto magic, and metamagic seemed like a neat focus.

> Mutantum and heroic virtues are quite good, so good in fact that I
> rather think Boosted, Tamed and Pagan belong in the core rulebook.
> I'm only quite dubious about making vis Boosting an Hermetic Virtue
> instead of mainstream Hermetic magic as it was. But at the worst,
> making Boosted magic standard practice is just a Major breakthrough
> away, right ?

Exactly. If only the House could get over their preference for blood relative apprentices, I'm sure they would completely revolutionize Hermetic magic. I think it's interesting how it's basically the House itself holding them back, and by extension the whole Order. They are so enamoured to their family tradition that they can't conceive of how good it would be for everyone if they could integrate their powers with mainstream magic. Selfish, and yet very selfless.

> I really hope RoP: Divine will offer a rule system for Divine
> powers that is rather less abusive for characters of other realms.
> According to Pax Dei systems, the moment any unwashed country
> priest decided to temper the Dominion or a couple crusaders
> appeared, archmages and faerie lord characters might well slit
> their wrists. :-((

Reviews seem positive so far. It sounds like the new rules for tempering auras and divine "hedge wizards" are generally regarded as a great improvement.

> (how big are HP issues, BTW ? HP delivers by e-mail, and my usual
> mail address won't take files larger than 3 M, or 50 M total).

I think Eric has a system where he puts the file on a file server for you to download, rather than emailing it to you.

> Any other article that you would commend to me ? E.g. I I noticed
> some Heretic's Corner articles about cotomizing Auras and covenant
> relations and resources. What about your article on the seven
> deadly personality traits ?

I'd highly recommend issue #9, since Alex's article on Mythic Zoroastrianism was very well received. That and my article on Personality traits were both adapted into /The Divine/, though in the former case there's so much more material in the magazine.

Every issue is...[Message truncated]

ErikTDahl (>>) wrote:

>>Sure. Well, I don't know about comprehensive, since the articles were rather short and there will probably be a lot more information in the book on the Mystery Houses. Also, it's not too long until /The Mysteries, Revised/ comes out, and that might make adapting the ideas you find in HP a little easier.>>

Don't worry. Both Mysteries Revised and Houses: Mystery Cults are firmly in my "to-buy ASAP" list. Yours, David's and Scott's Articles (and Ars Mathematica and Ars Sympathia, and the other miscellaneous material, such as Zoroastrians) are only meant as temporary fixes. Not too long ??? I read on these forums Mysteries got pushed a couple months back. It's an eternity ;-) Even if they are short, they are definitely better than nothing. Judging from TL, I'm sure new books will be chock-full of all-new juicy stuff. But April is a very long time, so I'll pick the first HP drafts eagerly.

From what I'm told in the rulebook, the basic mechnanisms for the mystae hasn't changed (get an initiation story or scenario, pick some Flaw as payment, pick a Virtue of similar price, repeat later in lifetime). The changes will be in all kinds of details, such as streamlining the prices of mystae virtues and adding some new.

>>Obviously I can't offer you any ideas about the contents of unpublished books, but I would suggest you look at /True Lineages/ as an example of the sort of treatment each of the Houses is likely to receive. I used my ideas from "Bonisagus Redux" as a starting point for some of the Mercere magic, but the final results were very different. Surely the Mystery Houses will also contain a great deal of new material, and while some of it may be adaptations of the ideas found in previous editions, there will undoubtedly be some surprises, too.>>

I have full trust of it, and in the editor and people who get to write it. This does not diminish the fact I might want something to make the wait less tedious ;-)

>>I think those rules were exclusively for magi, I'm afraid. They might give you ideas for powers faeries might have, though.>>

Quite likely. After all, the rules for faerie glamour were initially written as powers for faerie-blooded companions and magi.

>>Most of the article deals with revamping the Fourth Edition magic system, so I'd say only a small amount of it made it into /True Lineages/, like less than a quarter. That's a really good issue to get anyway, though, since there's so much other material in it that seems to be in line with your interests.>>

Yep, another sure buy.

>>I don't want to get your hopes up too much... it was a path of four mysteries that I described as appealing to Bonisagus, Guernicus, Mercere and Veriditius as magi in the "inner circle" of the Order, so to speak. Not really House Mysteries per se.>>

it's still material of great interest, as all hermetic mysteries are.

>>Exactly. If only the House could get over their preference for blood relative apprentices, I'm sure they would completely revolutionize Hermetic magic. I think it's interesting how it's basically the House itself holding them back, and by extension the whole Order. They are so enamoured to their family tradition that they can't conceive of how good it would be for everyone if they could integrate their powers with mainstream magic. Selfish, and yet very selfless.>>

Well, that describes the fundmanental conundrum of all Mystae. Secrecy ensures political power within Order, and an efficient transmission of lore, due to the initiation, which neatly bypassess normal learning difficulties. Yet if all hermetic mysteric organizations were to throw down diffidencies and share all their secrets for open reserach, they might realistlcally aim for eventually reaping that array of Major Breakthroughs that would enable top incorporate the techniques of each Mystae in standard Hermetic practice: it would be a massive magical revolution: picture a world where every hermetic mage can freely use faerie glamours and
faerie magic, has multiple heartbeasts, has the various bonuses to Muto magic from alchemy and the improved longevity elixir, can use celestial magic, hermetic inception and augury, Arm4 Ars Notoria, and thaumaturgy. Formulaic magic itself would be almost a thing of the past.

Not to mention the somewhat lesser, but still massive improvement to hermetic magic that would arise from pulling a concerted research effort to Major Breakthroughs on several metamagic Hermetic Virtues such as Diedne Magic, Flexible Formulaic Magic, Enduring Magic, Boosted Magic, Harnessed Magic, Quiet Magic, and Subtle Magic, or some very useful useful Supernatural Virtues like Entrancement, Shapeshifting, or Second Sight.

Bonisagus House has its ready-made program to revolutionize Hermetic magic just by organizing a concerted effort to Breakthrough most metamagic Hermetic Virtues and useful Magic-based Supernatural Virtues, first, then the Mystery Virtues of the mystae that are widespread and semi-mainstream in the Order. IMO all Mystery House mystae and the 4-6 main Hermeticist Mysteries (alchemy, astrology, augury, theurgy, numerology, and sympathy) hold that distinction, ie. they are widespread and their existence and main features are widely known outside their members, so I'd let any PC eventually join them with a successful initiation story, barring special background considerations. Their inner techniques are secrets, not their existence.

Mystery organization are on one hand very efficient in their methods that they easily bypass the onerous limitations established Hermetic mages have in learning new Supernatural Virtues. OTOH, the initiation mechanism is eventually self-defeating for a mage willing to significantly expand the boundaries of his personal hermetic methods in he has to accept a truckload of Flaws from different mysteries. e.g. a Verditius that pursues the secrets of Verditius Magic and Alchemy, and maybe Astrology, or a Merinita that seeks to reconcile Faerie Magic and Theurgy, and maybe Augury, or a Criamon that seeks insight in the Enigma and Augury, and maybe Alchemy or Theurgy. All mystae with very compatible philosophies, yet how many mysteries can an Hermetic hope to master in his lifetime ? I mean the mystery system is very efficient individually to pursue 2-3 specializations, but eventually self-defeating in the Bonisagus goal of expanding the boundaries of Hermetic magic for everyone. This IC of course, OOC the mystae initiations work wonderfully, the amount of Flaws you are willing to accept is the equilvant of the nifty new techniques you'll gain. I'm itching to try out a Merinita theurgist/augury with a Diedne heritage (and some serious problems to keep his magic under control):-)

Who knows, maybe even a diedne Mystery Cult might be set up, with Virtues like Enduring Magic, Cyclic Magic (or Special Circumstances), Puissant Animal or elemental techniques, Diedne Magic and Life-Linked Spontaneous Magic. It would complement the Bjornaer and Merinita duo beautifully.

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