What are some of the Arch Magus trials and challenges you have used? I was trying to come up with a few, and what kind of magus they might be appropriate for by House typically.

1. "Defeat me in Certamen", simple and straight forward until one finds out the rules involved. The Archmagus who owns the challenge can decide what Technique and Form can be used, and even if any can use Vis, or only himself. And while he might advertise that his challenge will be Certamen, until one actually challenges him no one necessarily knows his rules. Finally, he's likely to have prepared a powerful spell to cast on the loser of the challenge when he wins. Ideal challenge for a Tremere Archmage, but others might do it for simplicity's sake.

2. "Defeat me in Wizard's War". The challenge is simple; pick a fight and win. Not many Archmagi would likely choose this test, as they would only award someone the title one time most likely, and even if they fought off several challengers, the risk and costs would be great, plus they wouldn't be appreciated too much by their sodales. It's a challenge like this that might finally encourage the Quaesitori to try and limit the archmagi. Ideal for Flambeau and Tytalus mainly.

3. "Obtain the Sacred Host". The contest is simple, obtain the blessed host from a church. The more defined rules would be; You cannot be within Sight or closer range at the time of the theft, the Host must be stored in a Cathedral, you cannot use Mundane allies to aid you. This is a test of magical power and subtlety, and possibly of a Magus's allies and friends. Of course a challenge like this could cause numerous problems with the Church, and again would be frowned upon. Ideal especially for Tytalus, Merinita, and Miscellenea, but possibly even Jerbiton.

4. "Grapple with the Beast". You must defeat a powerful beast in single combat and cast no spells on it. The more defined rules would be that it is a beast from the Magic realm of at least 50 Might, no spells can be targeted at the Beast, no magic devices can target the Beast, allies can only be used to find the beast or train the magus or rescue the magus (being rescued forfeits the contest). Combat skills, combat enhancing spells and creative magic is what this tests as well as courage. A popular test with Flambeau, Tytalus and Tremere, though others might use it also.

5. "Produce a new breakthrough in original research". Though a Bonisagus Archmagus might present this challenge, many Bonisigi might decline, as research is already a part of their regimen. The research must officially begin after the challenge is issued, it cannot be based on any research already done by the challenger or anyone else. Bonisigi might present this challenge as would Mercere, Verditius or other research oriented Houses, mainly to adhere to their strengths and perhaps to serve as a non violent counterpoint to the more martial challenges.

6. "Present the Olive Branch". The challenge is to either bring in no less than 10 new magi from outside the Order and sponsor them for membership in Ex Miscellenea, or to make an equitable peace accord between two antagonistic Covenants of at least Summer strength. Considering how difficult the latter is, most would take the former. Politically oriented Bonisigi favor this challenge, as do Guernicus, Jerbiton and Mercere (when they manage to get an archmage), though it might appeal to a Tytalus for the sheer challenge.

7. "Make the Ice Queen Laugh". At the Winter Solstice, at the height of her melancholy, attend the Queen of Winter in her court and make her laugh. The local Faerie court says that Spring cannot happen until the Ice Queen laughs, thus beginning the end of Winter. The challenge is simple, the only rule is stated above and that the Magus himself must make her laugh, but if he can make her laugh he gains a token from her as proof (which is likely both a valuable prize and mixed blessing). Merinita and Ex Miscellenea favor this test, and it can make for interesting repercussions if the magus actually fails, will Spring arrive?

8. "Win the contest at Verdi". Obviously this challenge only would apply to candidates of House Veriditius. If the Archmagus is also Verditius (most likely) the challenge might read "Do better than me at the contest at Verdi". The contest is the 13-18 year contest where the greatest devices are competed against each other. Only Verditians would apply for this most likely, and only Verditians would likely issue this challenge.

9. "Bring me a Queen of Vis". A difficult challenge, this test is looked down upon by all involved as it amounts to nothing more than a massive bribe, similar to people literally buying their way into nobility. However it is quite a notable feat to amass that much of one kind of vis. Existing archmagi will make a note of censuring any of their number who issue this challenge as well as any that take it up successfully. Such an archmagi might get the title but will likely never earn the respect. Ex Miscellenea, Verditius, and archmagi from vis-poor Tribunals might engage in such a vulgar challenge.

10. “Proof of our Founders”. Find new authenticated lore on either one of the Founders, or prove definitively an existing disputed piece of information. Several of the Founders simply disappeared, and many existing wizards would love to find out some secret that they possessed or inherit some undiscovered piece of their legacy. This challenge could be changed to find information about the ancient Cult of Mercury or even the final fate of the last of House Diedne. All of the Houses (except perhaps Ex Miscellenea) have a strong interest in such lore, so this challenge could be appropriate for all. Some Houses in particular though would be; Guernicus, Bonisagus, Mercere (if they ever get an archmage), Criamon and Jerbiton.

Looking back on this, I see there really isn't a challenge that 'fits' well with either Criamon or Bjoernaer. So those would be some decent ones to think of.

Ok, of your list, I could use 1, 4, and 7 as is. 6 and 10 might work as well (though with 6, the number ten seems quite high if speaking about hedge wizards).

For an example Bjornaer quest, see the Guardians of the Forest, Archimagus Urgen's quest is detailed.

If the contest in Verdi was limited to House Verditius (can't remember without checking), 8 would not work at all. GotF clearly states that when the archmage accepts his first challenger, the quest that is used then will be the quest for all future challengers as well.

However, these might be poor examples, but these are the quests used by the archmages of Normandy in our current saga:

1. Defeat him in a debate on the theories of magic. The Council of Fudarus will judge the winner.

2. Befriend two full-sized dragons. Bring a token from each dragon (given freely by the dragon) to him.
Why two? This is a saga issue, one would have been Way too easy, considering that the whole troupe has already tentatively befriended one dragon.

3. Bring four (different types of) beings (i.e., elementals, spirits or faeries) that have power over earth to meet him. The beings must be fairly powerful (Might of 5th magnitude or higher).

4. Find a hedge wizard and get him publicly executed.

5. Give her a day's start, then find her, and defeat her in a certámen.

6. Greet the archmage in person, within a season. This is not as easy as it sounds, as it has probably been decades since he was last seen his person. While he is active in Hermetic politics, he interacts with others through his illusions.

7. Find a marched wizard and kill him before she does. If no suitable wizard can be named, she will find a neutral member to play the bogus target. In this case the combat is replaced by certámen.

And a couple from an older saga:

1. Answer the question: "What was my Master's favorite color?"

2. Fly through a certain mountain pass under two hours (actually while a single long candle still burns) at night. He sends the tested person on his or her way on the southern end of the pass, then uses the Leap of Homecoming to go to the other end and ignites the candle.
While the pass can be flown through in time by a bird, the pass is rather narrow, and has notoriously erratic currents. Furthermore, the bird would have to fly at 60 mph or more on average speed (which limits the birds to a handful). Of course, no such bird can see at night well enough to avoid collisions.
The obvious solution, Wings of the Soaring Wind, is not fast enough (but this is not easy to realize before actually trying it out), but with its Creo with Rego requisite it is safe enough for the flight. Of course, maintaining concentration long enough at these high speeds is a trick in itself.

A good Criamon challenge could be a riddle. One Criamon Archmage I read about, had as a challenge to answer a riddle. Can't remember the supplement she was in though. The riddle obviously changes from challenger to challenger. The riddle given to the first challenger was: What can never be used as a weapon?

In my current campaign the Primus of house Tytalus is an Archmage who hasn't long for this world. His challenge is simple. Become the next Primus of House Tytalus. Several magi are competing for this, one of whom has to some degree recruited the PC's to aid him.

A Bjornear challenge could be to restore the svantevit idol to it's former power so winter can be driven back once again, or to drive the Danes from Rügen.

Hail Eris!
Flarg

I don't have any good challenges to offer, but I'd like to discuss an idea and a problem I've run across.

My problem first.

My problem with the ArchMagi Challenge is it's soley an individual event. This makes it nearly impossible to include as an active event in a game setting that embraces an ensemble cast. So if the Arch Magi challenge is say Certamin, everyone else might as well play PS2 or cards, or go get food as the Challenger goes one on one with the GM.

With this in mind, I've always tried to imagine challenges that include the entire cast. For instance an race where the Arch Magi has access to a 'pit crew' (his Custos) and the challenger in turn can take a 'pit crew' on the race (the companions and grogs).

This allows for everyone to participate in the Arch Magi challenge and makes it more interesting for the entire party.

On my idea.

So my campaign has a focused organzied Order of Hermes, with a deep and active political element. I do not suggest that it is cannon or any where near canon. However hear me out.

Many of the books describe the Arch Magi as secret movers and shakers. They have influence over magi and across tribunals. Anyway, the ArchMagi must say yes to one challenger a year (right?), but they can also say no to as many challengers as they like.

It is then possible for the Arch Magi to only accept challengers who they know will loose. However, it's also possible for them to accept challengers who they know will win. This means, the Arch Magi can stock their numbers.

For instance, in the examples given in an earlier mail, one of the challenges was "What was my Pater's favorite color?"

Well what if the answer is blue.
What if everybody and their brother knows this.
Journeymen, just out of Gauntlet know "Blue" is the answer.

It's possible for every person that challeges that Arch Magus to win. And that Arch Magus can say no to every challenger, but one a year. That one will automatically win. The Arch Magi could allow people to win that favor his cause. Or if the Arch Magi are very organized, perhaps the Arch Magi as a whole chose who is allowed to win.

Perhaps they all get around and they say, we want so and so to join us. When So and So gets around to challenging the Arch Magus, he accepts, So and So says, "Blue!" and wins, and is a member.

I argue the entire Arch Magi Challenge could be fixed with "losers" being the people the Arch Magi don't want in the club and "winners" presenting the appearance of victory in a challenge, but in fact they are the preselected initiates into the club.

This would make the Arch Magi much more exclusive (than it already is) and provide it with a clearer focus (we are of simular mind).

I'm in the Chicago-land area, so maybe our politics has rubbed off on me, but this is something I wanted people to consider. Maybe the entire challenge is a sham, maybe the Arch Magi are made up of exactly who the Arch Magi want in thier number.

Chuck

To avoid the setting that you are trying to establish which basically would mean that the archmagus status is worth nothing, I would suggest that the winner has the priviledge of allowing the Beaten archmagus to retain his status. By default, he would take it away.

This way you have truly powerfull or cunning Mages that own the title.

There is already in the rules a protection that says that if an archmagus looses too many test in his life, he can lose it in the face of the others. This would imply that you are only a archmagus if you can maintain the reputation that you are indeed one. Knowing the favorite coulour of the parents Archmagus just doesn't cut it unless it is a new colour that was created thru a breakthru which led to the horrible fluo color that pleague the 90' :P

To help prevent the croniyism you're describing, the Archmagus challenge is actually the last step in a dificult process. The accepted standard is (in no particular order):

1. Train an apprentice to full magus status
2. Create a spell of at least 7th magnitude
3. Perform a notable deed in service to the Order as a whole
4. (In the Rhine only) Be a Master (which is pretty much met by the time one would try for archmagi, but has its own requirements)

When that is completed, you must find and challenge an existing archmage. Each archmage comes up with a challenge, the first time they are challenged, whatever challenge they make will be the one they keep from then on. The challenge is not limited per se, but shouldn't include breaking Hermetic laws (you'll notice in my list of challenges there wasn't any that had anything to do with the Infernal for example). If the challenger succeeds, then he is awarded Archmagushood. An existing Archmagus can only award as many as 7 new archmagis, and on the 7th awarding would lose his own title. Any new archmage who was awarded the title by beating another archmagi for the 7th time would be accorded slight regard at best by the other Archmagi. In fact, most Archmagi never are challenged even 6 times, since the 6th is the last time realistically. If the wizard's own parens is a (living) archmagus, he is expected to chellenge him first, and is unlikely to be considered an archmagus until he does so, even if he succesfully beats others.

So, while your scenario is somewhat feasible, there are built in protections to prevent it. Merit is by and large the way one gets in, and cronyism is deterred effectively.

BTW I'm from Chicago too, and can see how you came by this comparison.

Hey!
Shout to Chicago!

So I don't want to sound rude after you took the time to detail how one becomes a candidate to even challenge an Archmage, but I still don't think it wipes out the potential for croyisim.

I shouldn't have over exagerated when I pointed out any journeyman can challenge the Archmagus. They can't, that's been established for years.

Again, I started by saying my campaign has a heavy political element, and in a world where politics is much more loose or even non existent, my premise fails.

However, I still think one can achieve all the qualifing points to challenge an Arch Magus and still become a victim of Croyism. By vetoing challengers they elliminate an entire field of candidates. Even if the challenge isn't rigged, they can still pick the person they would like to see join their ranks. So even without a rigged vote, croyism can still occur.

Mind you, this is only one way the Arch Magi can be played and I mainly point it out to let the lot of you mull it over and consider it an option for game play. I'm not suggesting that this is the manditory way it must be.

Just consider in my campaign we have a resident Flambeau who has accomplished all the tasks listed.

1. Train an apprentice to full magus status
Done

2. Create a spell of at least 7th magnitude
Done

3. Perform a notable deed in service to the Order as a whole
Done

4. (In the Rhine only) Be a Master (which is pretty much met by the time one would try for archmagi, but has its own requirements)
Done.

This Flambeau, for personal reasons enjoys the challenge of obtaining success. Becomeing an ArchMagus would be another badge to slip on her robes pointing out the incredible heroine that she is.

In my game the Arch Magi are heavily involved in politics, they are the movers and shakers of the Order. If a Arch Mage says jump, an Magus asks how much Vis must I use to boost the Range? Given this environment, the Arch Magi don't want to bequeath the position to a title seeker and it's possible that via unwritten or unspoken rule, that all Arch Magi will forever say no to her challenges for the Title. They don't want 'her kind' in their ranks.

Now my good friend plays this character and I'm not stopping him from trying though I have suggested that becoming an Arch Magus (in terms of our campaign) would add a political element to his character that he'd probably not enjoy. It may not be worth it to become an Arch Magus. Not everyone wants to be the old man running around telling young heros where to go and who to save.

Another one of our players has achieved the saught after title of Arch Magus, and since then they are seen with suspicious, a possible spy within our ranks. Becomeing an Arch Magus has pulled him away from the covenant family because his loyalties are divided. Will he tell all this to the Arch Magi? Will they foul up our plans?

So by all means play the Arch Magi in manner that is best for your campaign, but if your campaign has a political bent where motive and ulterior motive have as much importance as which spells you cast, consider ArchMage status simply another level of croyism. Perhaps in terms of politics, the Arch Magi can be seen as Boss's. It's not enough to do everything necessary to become a Boss, the political machine needs to support your canidacy (by accepting your challenge) in order to achieve the status.

Material to consider, that is all.

Chuck

Shout right back at you! Do you get your gaming stuff from Games Plus?

No doubt politics are involved, that and intrigue, double dealing, backstabbing, etc. And the Archmagi are a major political force; they are automatically invited to Grand Tribunals where they parlor for their own agendas, they are considered celebrities wherever they go, their favor and advice is curried by most Magi, and their very presence in Tribunals can swing votes one way or the other. A good example of that in our campaign was when an Archmagus actually threatened the Praeco with Wizard's War when it looked like the Praeco was ready to silence him. The Archmagi's measure passed.

But the archmagi aren't unified, except in a few things, like the 7th challenge or challenging one's Parens. And if one archmagi refuses to accept a certain challenger, certainly others would accept it, perhaps merely out of spite. And many archmagi are archmagi merely for the status and challenge, that's why so many archmagi are Flambeau, Tytalus, Tremere, and Bonisagus. For them the title and respect is the reason for the status in the first place, so to have the entire body of archmagi refuse one challenger who happens to be a glory hound, I'd have to say many would be eager for that challenge. Either to slap down an upstart, enjoy a good challenge, bring a like mind into their ranks, or merely because that's the way they see the rank of archmagus in the first place.

I could definitely see how the one player who did become archmagus would be looked on with suspicion though, that is an accurate response I think.

Bear in mind I agree with you completely about the politics, I just don't see archmagi refusing challenges to be as much of an obstacle or the cronyism you describe. It could still be there, for example, a magus that many archmagi want to join their ranks might be pushed into challenging someone they're confident he can beat. While one they didn't like might be pushed towards a veritable titan, or worse, an old or weak archmagi who's been challemged 6 times, other archmagi are just not available to be challenged, but don't necessarily refuse. If other magi started seeing archmagi refusing to accept challenges I think some of their mystique and power would be lost. The idea that many magi have is that they can take on all comers, to actually hear of them refusing (for whatever reason) might imply cowardice or weakness.

All good points, I just wanted to get the idea out there. It can be modified or ignored as people like.

I've been to Game Plus once, it was pretty cool. I used to live in Milwaukee and typically got my stuff from Napoleons when I was visiting family, but they're gone now (sniff, sniff, sniff).

http://www.jsonline.com/enter/gen/feb05/300289.asp

My brother lives in Chicago off of Augusta and Western. There's suppose to be a cool game store there and my brother has given it good reviews. There's a small store here in Aurora, but no Ars stuff, no Atlas stuff so I've become an internet buyer. I miss supporting a store front, had a lot of good times at the gaming store. Sniff, sniff.

Anyway, this is about Arch Magi.

So I had another idear. Sort of a variant of the Durescra Scrolls.

I had considered releasing/discovering "The Code of the Arch Magi".

Essentially the Code of the Arch Magi is a variant on the Code of Hermes, but it requires magi to swear oath to the Arch Magi. It sort of puts them within, but above the Order of Hermes. Need to scry on a member of the Order of Hermes? Talk freely among Arch Magi, we agree it's ok to scry on our lessers. Need someone offed? Talk freely among your peers, it's ok to off lessers.

Again, in my campaign there's maybe 30 Arch Magi tops and they are a tight organization. So the discovery of such a document, will really mess them up. I'm not sure if I will run this idea, but I'm considering it.

Chuck

So I'm the one that threw out the croynism idea, and I wanted it out there for people to consider. I wasn't suggesting it had to be that way.

Having said that, I don't think croynism over time debases the status of ArchMagi or makes the title 'little more than a joke.'

Consider that you have to be a magus of some importance to simply challenge an ArchMagus. Statistically your Mage isn't a slouch. Reputation-wise, they are of 'known' status. Which means even without the title, they are a character with contacts and more important *influence* (be it sheer intimidation or something more subtle like politics).

These things establish that even witout the title, you have influence and power in at least your Tribunal, if not over multiple Tribunals. It's unlikely that any magus is going to treat a candidate for Arch Magehood as someone that can be ignored or pushed around. So I don't think rigged contests lowers the bar or results in weaker Arch Magi. I think it actually makes it harder to become an Arch Magi and increases the likelyhood that magi meet 'the standards' of Arch Magehood.

One can veto a candidate because the candidate has the wrong reasons, because they don't like them, because they will foil a personal/political plan. One can veto a candidate they know will win and if one choses they can only accept candidtates that will lose the contest. This means it's possible for an Arch Magus to be undefeated simply by picking the right candidates (crappy ones) to face his challenge.

This is something I wanted people to consider as well. In addition to croynism, which is essentially picking members that support your 'cause', you can keep people out that are against your 'cause', however it can go beyond political motivations and simply be a form of elitism. For instance, your a Flambeau Arch Mage, why would accept a challenge from a Muslim Magus or a Merinita knowing (confidently) they would beat you?

So my point was, not only can you stack the ranks in your favor, you can make active efforts to keep people out by vetoing particular challengers. I find this very interesting.

Also, when I proposed that ArchMagi fail contests to let allies in, I didn't suggest they advertise it. It isn't as if every mage in the order goes, "Oh, he's 'challenging' an ArchMagus", then rolls his eyes and snorts.

In fact I don't think an Arch Magus would ever advertise that the system is rigged. I'm proposeing this idea is a GM secret, or at least an unproveable theory inside the game.

I think it works to the Arch Magi's favor to establish that the contests are impossible to overcome. Sort of like Koybashi Maru (sp?) in Star Trek. Here is a challenge that no Captain can defeat (except for Kirk-who cheated). This sort of impossible challenge feeds the legendary status of Arch Magi, suggesting that it's impossible to become an Arch Magi and everyone that has become one has done the impossible. I think the Rome Tribunal book tells of a story of a magus who was eaten by a book *researching* a way to beat an Arch Magus. That's they way I like. The challenge is so dangerous that simply looking into a solution can kill you. These are guys and gals to be feared.

That the challenges are rigged to keep people out and only let the right people in, is just an idea. Even without rigged contests, the elitist element of the challenge holds true. Looking for a crony? Accept the challenge and allow him the 'chance' to enter the ranks. Do not want a particular person to join the ranks, veto their challenge, possible for ever. Possibly tell your Arch Magi buddies to veto this guys challenge as well (and support his/her cause on the sly).

I bring this up, because just challenging the Arch Magi can be turned into a political adventure that could take years to play out.

In my early campaign we had an Arch Mage who like so many old wizards assigned us adventures and told us what to do. Very early in the campaign he began to groom his student (a PC) to become an Arch Mage. The two would talk together, the two would attend Arch Magi meetings. The PC didn't want to become an Arch Mage and made that clear to me. So the Arch Magi basically dropped his son and 'adopted' another PC of the same house. This second PC then was groomed to become an Arch Magi, taking on special assignments that made him famous, taking on lab projects that forced him to get just the right stats.

It's natural that PC's are the focus of stories and this particular PC was picked to become an Arch Magi. He was groomed for 15 plus years, and everyone in the game knew one day he would become an Arch Magi. This PC did become an Arch Magi and the cumulation of this 'dream' has come back to bite him as he's nearly excomunicated from the covenant because everyone distrusts him now. Now he isn't one of us, he's an Arch Magus!

It became irrelevant whether his contest was rigged or not, because the Arch Magi got the man they wanted, a magus they groomed for the position. Even if the contest was rigged, no one would ever consider this Arch Magus a pushover or slouch. He is infact feared for the lethality of his enchanted items.

So again, I don't think croynism, or elitism weakens the ranks of the Arch Magi, it in fact seems to me that it would increase their threat level as they can subtley add another level of selectively to who joins their ranks.

Chuck

// I wasn't suggesting it had to be that way.

And I'm not going to suggest it has to be my way, but it is one possibility. I think it's quite amusing if a character devotes decades of study to challenging and beating an archmage, but a couple of years later two or three rival groups begin to hand out the title for free to their supporters. Or maybe it's not a case of warring factions, but one generous archmage who feels that any reasonably important magus should have the title. Next year it's two philanthropic archmagi, then four...

// Having said that, I don't think croynism over time debases the status of ArchMagi or makes the title 'little more than a joke.'
Consider that you have to be a magus of some importance to simply challenge an ArchMagus. Statistically your Mage isn't a slouch. Reputation-wise, they are of 'known' status. Which means even without the title, they are a character with contacts and more important *influence* (be it sheer intimidation or something more subtle like politics). //

Until you add the title of 'archmage', advertising to the whole order that you've sold out (whether you have or not). My impression is that magi value their personal power and independence, and are scornful of those who would prostitute themselves to some faction. Or, to put it another way, they sympathise with megalomania, but abhor cooperation.

And we've barely scratched the surface of bribery.

Damn.

I spend a lot of time developing motive based adventures and they ultimately all have some kind of political angle. I spend time thinking about lineage and 'family', about personal ego compared to house loyalty, religion, and even money be it coin or vis. But I never applied the notion of bribery to Arch Magehood.

This is very intrigueing. While I totally understand your position that Arch Magi could 'abhor cooperation', in my particular campaign they are a tight group. The Order within the Order. They are the Gandalfs of Mythic Europe running around fixing things. Just throw out the moral code and the premise that something is broke and needs to be fixed. Croynism earned or unearned even if not advertised can lead to non-Arch Magi become cynics, quietly skeptical of the organization.

But toss in bribery and there's an entirely new game a foot. For instance, one could throw out my premise of croynism all together. One could bribe an Arch Mage A to learn how be beat Arch Mage B. Then challenge Arch Mage B knowing the solution to his contest. One could bribe an apprentice of the Arch Magi, or naturally the Arch Mage himself. Perhaps the Arch Mage has made it clear he's open to bribes.

Perhaps he has a real hard longevity potion to make and the right amount of Vis will let him consider you over others as a candidates as the challenger he will accept. Hell, the contest doesn't need to be rigged at all. You simply have to pay the right amount to be accepted as the challenger.

Yes, all sorts of story paths are forming now.

Hmmmm...

Chuck ponders the consequences...

Dictionary.com:

Cronyism:
Favoritism shown to old friends without regard for their qualifications, as in political appointments to office.

In earlier posts I propose the idea that Arch Magi can control who enters their ranks by carefully selecting who is allowed to challenge them.

An Arch Magi can veto the challenge of people they dislike. The same Arch Magi can accept the challenge of people they do like. In this way, another level of selectivity is added to the Arch Magi. This level of selectivity is based on personal qualifications, rather than 'statistical' qualifications.

So a Flambeau Arch Magi may have two challengers to choose from. A Muslim Alchemist and an Iberean Christian Flambeau. He'll likely choose the Iberean Christian Flambeau. In a more political campaign, the motivations can be more specific.

Therefore, in addition to beating an Arch Magi's challenge, the challenger must be an acceptable candidate. In other words a 'crony'.

Beyond this I proposed that Arch Magi can rig their contests to deliberately fail, so a particular candidate enters the ranks of the Arch Magi and can help their 'patron' with a paticular cause. Your an Arch Magi and you want to wipe out the Mongul Horde. You have no one to support your cause. Find magi that want to be Arch Magi and want to wipe out the Mongul Horde and 'lose' to them. Now the Arch Magi contain several members that want to wipe out the Mongul Horde.

Generally, people seem to feel that this sort of view of the Arch Magi will cheapen the title and weaken the ranks. I do not see this, I feel croynism makes it even more difficult to enter the ranks of the Arch Magi because in addition to beating a challenge, the candidate must also meet the paticular nuanced requirements to become an acceptable challenger. Even if the contest is thrown, to become a candidate means the magus is of exceptional skill so I don't think the strength of the Arch Magi is lessened.

Much of this, and the counter points is detailed in previous 15 posts.

Chuck

Edited 10/19/2005 12:29 pm ET by Tuura

On a lighter note I just remembered a joke of our gaming troupe.

Years ago we discussed the secret requirements to become an Arch Magus.

I can't remember of all of them, but some of the secret requirements included:

All male Arch Magi must have a beard.
All Female Arch Magi must have 'big hair'.
All Arch Magi must cast Chamber of Spring Breezes upon entering a room so their cloak billows in the wind and make them look cool.
All Arch Magi must carry a Staff.

Arch Magi also had some unique rights:

All Arch Magi can break into any Player Character debate, no matter how remote.
All Arch Magi that break into a Player Character debate know exactly what is going on and always have the right solution to the problem.
No Magi can ever claim that an Arch Magi was scrying on them in order to find the debate or bud into it.

There was more, I forget them. Maybe some of you have observations on the 'subtle' powers/requisites Arch Magi possess.

Chuck